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Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

sabine — Sun, 08 Oct 2006 22:34:00 -0000

Hello...so, did i get this right? Believe "just in case"...???
What if you are the best person ever....nothing but good deeds and a wholesome life....you just didn't believe in God. Should you then fry in hell for eternity?
And what if you are a religious person in church every week and preaching a holier than thou attitude but in the meantime are a corrupt slimeball (ala Jimmy Swaggart?)....should this person be allowed to go into heaven just because he 'believed'?
It's just plain rediculous.
I am not gonna 'believe' just to have insurance i am going to go get into heaven. You are asking me to be a hyprocrit.

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

Hellbound Alleee — Tue, 27 Jun 2006 19:56:00 -0000

Reasons why it's good to be an atheist:
Knowing that life isn't a gamble
No fear of hell, Satan, demons, or other magical things
Your thoughts are your own: only the government is listening (we'll take care of that later, lol)
Being able to read anything you want, without fear that your peers will disapprove
Sneaking an extra pork chop during prayers

Now, if you want to ask that question again, ask a Hindu or a Jew why they don't believe in Jesus, "just in case." You're the one whose scared. You're the one who believes there's a chance you could suffer for eternity, not me.

You have a choice. A choice to not be afraid. You are not required to believe.

A question from me: why did God make the rule that non-believers must go to hell? Please justify. Thanks!

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

Patricia — Sat, 20 May 2006 01:21:00 -0000

Oh shit! There's drinking and orgies in Muslim heaven?! Well, I better pretend I worship Allah, you know, just in case . . .

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

Anonymous — Tue, 16 May 2006 14:30:00 -0000

I believe that someone earlier said that the fact that the tomb was opened proved that Jesus was a hoax and he questioned why the tomb would have to be opened if it was his soul that was resurrected. Actually, resurrection of the body is one of the main tenants of atleast the catholic (original) faith. Many christians do not even know this, but it is not your soul that goes to heaven it is your body on the last day of judgment. It's true. Ask any priest. I believe this bit of doctrine comes from St. Augustine.

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

blaine — Mon, 15 May 2006 02:17:00 -0000

Blaine: I thought this letter I wrote to a wonderful friend of mine, who is not a Christian, might help explain my "belief system" to all here. I have saved and learned much from your letters. If I had just one suggestion [I had to learn this when working with my youth gangs and other groups that sometimes had a very deep anger and were not afraid to show it] is that sometimes the language here gets too "salty", from both sides, which can overshadow the message you are trying to convey.
Lois: That was a beautiful letter that you wrote, Blaine. How very telling that CC did not respond to ONE issue that you brought up.

Blaine: Thanks Lois-you are one of my bright lights. I don't understand why fundamental Christians do not realize the depth of their hurt upon others and will even blame gays for the high gay youth suicide rate.
But to be fair I am somewhat of an oxymoron to non-believers and fundamental believers.
Non-believers ask, and rightfully so, "How can you be gay and claim to be a Christian", while fundamental believers say, "How can you say you're a Christian when you say you're gay and reject a large part of the Bible".
The only answer I can give is one that I cannot prove and is very subjective, but as I have said the majesty and mind of mankind [that is unless he is using politics or religion to satisfy his "petty dictator" desires], the complexity and design of all creation, the beauty of nature and the universe that Loren is privileged to often see close up and the experience in my heart in 1971 is what I hang my hat on.
I can truly say I love my God and people more than I ever have-in large part thanks to this site because it brought up close the contradictions of a God who is supposed to love unconditionally, have the qualities of mercy, compassion, forgiveness and grace [unmerited favor] as compared to Bible God who lacks the very virtues that His followers talk about; and I no longer have to "judge" who is worthy of God's love.
So I have a peace in my heart that I have never had before. I feel I am free from the chains of religious bigotry, judgment and hate.
I know "my peace" is a contradiction to some but it works for me and those I am privileged to help. And for that I am very grateful.
Love,
blaine

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

Dano — Sun, 14 May 2006 16:54:00 -0000

To any and all anoymouses who may be inclined to say "We didn't come from no damn monkeys, or there is no proof that evolution is true," I would suggest that you read Leonard's post above, on the process of evolution, and one of the most clear, concise and scholarly attempts I have ever seen to explain it.

I would suggest you make copies of it and pass them out to all of your evangelical friends. I am sure that Leonard is a scientist or has considerable empirical education. He says: "Finally, about 200,000 years ago, Homo Sapiens arose from Homo Erectus in Africa, and about 140,000 years later followed the footsteps of Erectus, eventually populating the world, taming livestock, cultivating crops, building cities and inventing gods", which leads me into my own not so scholarly, nor scientifically accurate version of how we came to be, and started making up Gods in an attempt to explain it.

Isn't it strange that we climb down out of the trees, and in the last 100,000 years or so, learn to walk upright, learn agriculture, and domestication of other animals for food, learn to speak and write, and one of the first things we do is create God. Isn't it even weirder that this God is just a bigger stronger version of ourselves. People of every religion, and there are thousands, believe those of a different religion are doomed to go to some version of hell when they die, and only they will be in a paradise forever

Isn't even stranger that man refers to God as a male, and he gets angry, makes mistakes, is jealous, demands our love and devotion, and is vengeful? We are talking about the "cause of everything," and we think of it as powerful human male.

Of course the cause of everything "God" had to have a nemesis, so the designers of the Christian religion have God creating a character who in many cases is superior in strength to Himself, and lets him run amuck over the earth doing harm to people, and God seems to be incapable or unwilling to "Stifle" this character.

But the most crazy thing about the way man designed God is the way they say he loves all of his creations, when all we have to do is look around us and observe the way life actually is. The strong are favored over the weak, the more intelligent over the stupid, the attractive over the ugly. Millions of people are starving. Millions more are diseased and malformed. Tyrannical rulers are committing genocide on their neighbors. We have assembly lines that slaughter billions of other animals in order to feed the 6 billion humans on earth. The "population bomb" is on a collision course with disaster. Billions of us will die without the slightest consolation from the force that created us. This very obvious reality for the most part is totally ignored by believers in the Christian religion, and also believers in most other religions.

Skeletons of literally billions of life forms, that have come and gone, litter the earth, and attest to the fact that every species that has ever lived, has just been an experiment or stepping stone, if you will, for the next one that was capable of reproducing faster or surviving better. In other words, the creatures who were the best at killing and having sex became our ancestors. Where is the love in that? "Natural Selection" is very efficient to the extent that it does insure that life will forge ahead in some form or other, but an ABSENCE of love is the operating principle. "Eat or be eaten," find some way to reproduce faster and better and become smarter or you will become extinct, like the millions of species that preceded us have.

Just look at the characteristics of the opposite sex that generate what we call LOVE for them. Men are attracted most to females for their baby making physical characteristics first (Big breasts and hips, and shapely gluteus Maximus's) and then by their brains. Women are attracted to men with power, who are good providers, and nest builders. Very few people are attracted to the stupid ugly, and defective. These people quite often go through life without mates. If love for all people were an innate quality in us, like the religious like to pretend, we would all be striving to help the sick and starving people that are suffering everywhere.

After the bible was being pieced together by the Roman Empire, from fragments oral and written history, and proclaimed to be the only legal belief a citizen could espouse, anyone who openly opposed this State Religion was immediately identified and silenced, bringing on a very long period of rule by the officials of the church. The Dark Ages or rule by the church finally ended, only after millions of unbelievers apostates, heretics, witches, people possessed by demons, and otherwise innocent people were tortured and murdered in the name of God.

It is my personal belief that with the advent of mass communication whereas the common man has access to instant rebuttal by brilliant people to all of the mythology being peddled, ancient scenarios of murderous vengeful Gods, casting anyone who doesn't pay homage to them into a lake of fire, along with all the other illogical stuff that has persisted in human storytelling, will become obsolete, sooner than later.

I will finish with another quote from Leonard:

"Personally, I find it infinitely grander to realize that I am part of a gigantic tapestry of life, rolling from its beginnings, billions of years ago, in the blazing furnace of a dying star, than to believe a petty, incompetent and vicious God made my ancestor from dirt, 6000 years ago"
Dan (Who is amazed by the journey of man, from one cell to being what he is today, and that it only took 4 billion years)

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

S.L. — Sun, 14 May 2006 15:29:00 -0000

CC,
Every arguement every Christian has thrown at me in an attempt to reconvert me doesn't make sense because it is just fiction. It's nothing to do with hating Christians or 'spirital blockage' or anything. You know, like the tales of fairies and ghosts and unicorns, Zeus and Mount Olympus, and the epic of Gilgamesh are all made up. Demon are not expelled because demons do not exist. The bible was written by men who saw the world in all it's painful glory and in an attempt to make sense out of it,attributed it to a god or gods and also to make the poor ordinary types behave and stay in line. It just so happens that the collection of kiddology called the bible still has a hold on the modern mind, it's filtered through for some reason. There is no god, no afterlife, what you get is what you see. By the way, history books find no evidence of the Exodus, the drowning of the soldiers et all, neither do they find objective, undoctored evidence that Jesus the Christ ever existed. It's just like someone appearing and saying they believe that Olympus is a real place and Zeus is now living inside them and when their time comes they will go off to the holy mountain to live forever in bliss! I'm sorry, but I won't be convinced otherwise and it hurts to think of you believers so deluded. Unless you're believing because the threat of hell keeps you in line.

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

Jim Arvo — Sun, 14 May 2006 15:25:00 -0000

Anonymous,

Don't expect a one-size-fits-all answer to your question. People come here for different reasons. Personally, I am often amused by the visiting Christians who post here, but when they resort to wearisome repetition of unsupported dogma, and keep posing and posting and posting, I too start asking myself what they are doing here. There's only so much "God this" and "God that" I can take when there is nothing at all offered to support the existence of such a being in the first place, and nothing close to a definition of such a being either. So, in summary, I actually do enjoy seeing different points of view here, and interacting with such posters, so long as they are willing to engage in meaningful dialog; I do not appreciate being preached at or talked down to, and I don't think anybody else here does either. Does that help?

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

xrayman — Sun, 14 May 2006 15:18:00 -0000

Yes I guess we are in the ultimate catch 22, and much as the Christians bug the shit out of us, we do need them here. Just like the cops need the criminals or they would be out of a job.

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

Anonymous — Sun, 14 May 2006 15:11:00 -0000

Why are you complaining about the christians coming on your website?Wouldn't it be a boring and very empty site if they didn't. Imagine you members just asking each other about the weather.The debates is why your here. if nothing but friendly hello's were posted, who would waste their time reading any of it? Quit complaining! You know that you enjoy this!

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

Jim Arvo — Sun, 14 May 2006 14:44:00 -0000

Leonard, you have far more patience than I. Kudos on a very well-written summary.

Way back there somewhere you concluded a post with "Maybe you should do what WE did and use your brain. It took four billion years to evolve. It would be a waste not to use it." Well put. I like that.

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

Leonard — Sun, 14 May 2006 13:55:00 -0000

Hello CC. I notice you did not address the problems with the Gospels I mentioned.
Oh yeah... and if the miracles in other religions come from demons... how do you know the miracles you experience are NOT caused by demons, who want to keep you away from the TRUE god... Quetzalcoátl? What will you tell the Feathered Snake when you face His divine judgment? "Sorry, Lord, I did not believe you existed."

--

Hello "Anonymous" (why did you not use a name?)...

You say the notion that we "came from monkeys" is far less believable than the notion that an invisible, all-powerful being made us from dirt/earth/dust/clay approximately 6000 years ago?
Well, I am sorry, but this only shows you don´t actually know anything about the subject. But, nil desperandum! I will attempt to explain to you the scientific view of the matter.

First of all, you need to understand something. All life on Earth (that we know of :) ) is based on the chemical element carbon (C). In fact all life on Earth we know of is based on DNA, the crystalline macro-molecule described by Watson and Crick.
Now... all life forms use the same four bases as information-carriers in the DNA structure... Adenosine, Guanine, Thymine and Cytosine. Every single life form - animals, plants, fungi, slime moulds, complex single-celled organisms, archaea and bacteria - you name it. All of them. Now, to me, this at least suggests that all life forms are related... because there is no good reason why independently emerging life would all use the exact same system and the exact same base pairs.

(A Christian jokingly told me that humans and bananas have 60% of their DNA in common, and then asked whether it meant we are related. Well, yes, that is exactly what it means.)

Of course you could say that God, having invented ACTG-based DNA (pun), decided to use it for ALL the millions of different life forms, without creating even one with a genetic matrix based on a different molecule. Not very imaginative, especially for a God, but hey, it´s conceivable.

Now, DNA´s base pairs are arranged in genes - base sequences that code for something in the cell (as you know, every living cell has its operations managed by the chemical program contained in the DNA). Now, as it turns out, different life forms nevertheless use the same gene sequences for the same or similar purposes. A nice and famous case in point is that the same gene that codes for segments in flies codes for rib growth in mice.

Seems to indicate they both inherited that same gene from a common ancestor.
What was the last common ancestor of vertebrates and arthropods? Probably a worm-like creature in an early Cambrian sea.

In any case... the genetic similarities seem to oddly increase with perceived relationships. For instance, as it turns out, humans and chimpanzees have more than 95% (maybe as much as 98.5%) of our DNA in common.

But it´s more than that. There are retroviral DNA remnant sequences.
You see, you got these tiny parasitical molecular machines named viruses. You can´t really call them alive - they´re more like rogue bodyparts of cells, if you will. A virus consists of some DNA (or RNA) and a protein shell. The shell only serves to hook on to a living cell and inject the virus itself. The parasitical DNA then breaks down the cell´s own genetic material and uses the A, C, T and G to copy itself a couple of thousand times, after which the assembler code of the viral DNA builds new protein shells. The cell then breaks down and the new viruses are released.

But some viruses don´t do that. Retro-viruses enter the cell like a normal virus, but then the parasitical genes interweave themselves with the host´s DNA... sneaking in, as it were, like a spy in a row of soldiers. Then, it does nothing. But every time the cell divides, a copy is made of the new DNA... until a certain moment or event triggers the virus, and the cell dies in the birth of an army of viruses.

But sometimes something goes wrong. Sometimes the virus never activates, instead becoming a permanent part of the host DNA. If you know where to look, you can use such foreign DNA sequences as markers. If your father possessed such retroviral DNA sequence remnants, you would of course have them too. And your children would too, plus any new retroviral remnants your reproductive cells might have picked up. Doesn´t happen often... and that´s exactly what makes retroviruses so important to tracing human ancestry.

You see, humans and chimpanzees have retriviral DNA sequence remnants in common. Several of them, in fact. And that by inclusion means that humans and chimps must have had the same ancestors.

Chimps and humans also each have retroviral sequences the other species does not have. This means they were sustained since humans and chimps split off. Now, the rate at which new retroviruses are sustained is more or less ( :) ) a given. It´s sometimes known as the molecular clock. Using this, it has been estimated with reasonable accuracy that humans and chimpanzees were one species, a little over five million years ago.

The fact that this notion is supported by a large car trunk full of ancestral primate fossils is just the icing on the cake. That humans are descended from ape-like primates is not seriously in question and has not been for - well, a while now.

Now, you ask, how is this possible? How does evolution work?

Well, first of all... variation is very important. All life forms are based on DNA. DNA contains such an enormous number of chemical connections, that it is inevitable that alterations are caused by reactive chemicals or radiation. If such a chemical change occurs, it is usually corrected by the self-adjusting nature of DNA. However, every now and then a change is permanent. Maybe it won´t affect the cell; but if it does, the cell usually either self-destructs or is destroyed by other cells.
But sometimes neither happens. Sometimes a cell will have a permanently altered function (and that is putting it simply. A single atom shifting can alter a base pair, which alters an entire codon, which changes the entire gene, which affects other genes, which affect other genes in turn...). A mutation.

And sometimes, the cell that is altered is a reproductive cell. A sperm cell or ovum. Then, every cell in the entire new organism will be a mutant cell. (He was in Dragonball Z).
Now, even so, the individual might not be what you would call a mutant, or a "hopeful monster". In fact, on average, every person has four mutations in his body that his or her parents did not have, and obviously we are mostly similar to them.

But sometimes, the change will be profound, even if its on a small scale. Your stomach acid may be different. You might have stronger bones, or more brittle ones. You might have more muscle tissue. You might have a fourth kind of sensory cell in your eye, allowing you to perceive color in a way us normals cannot understand (there actually are such people).
Now, in nature, if such a change would benefit your ability to have offspring, of course you would have more children. And odds are, at least half (and more if the gene was recessive to begin with) will have the mutated gene in them as well. Now, if the gene is recessive, they might not have the mutated TRAIT, but they will have the mutated GENE in them... and it will slowly spread throughout the population. If the mutation indeed benefits people who have it, eventually every individual of your species will indeed possess the new trait.

But of course, if circumstances change, the mutation might then become negative. If a mutant had thicker fur than his normal brethren, he would have an advantage when it was cold, but at a disadvantage if the climate changed.

That is why variation is so important. The more variation exists in a species, the more likely it is to be able to adapt to changing circumstances. Bear in mind it is the SPECIES that changes, not the individuals.

Now, along with variation, large numbers of offspring are also important. Almost every species in nature (mammals less so) produce far more offspring than can possibly survive. The random shuffling of genetic traits that occurs every time an animal procreates results in genetic variation in every batch of newborns, ensuring that no matter what the circumstances, at least some will survive to breed in turn. And the ones that survive will logically be the ones with the most effective collection of genes.

So, under stable circumstances, what is usually described as "evolution" (the radical changing of species into new species) would not occur. A species would remain the same as long as the circumstances did, perhaps becoming better and better adapted to that specific set of circumstances, resulting in extreme specialization. But such a species would be vulnerable to rapidly changing circumstances.

Now... on human evolution. Just WHY primates (and although it is technically speaking wrong to call them apes, it is not entirely unjustifiable) split off a branch (SPLIT OFF. "If humans came from apes, why are these still apes?" Because not all apes evolved the way we did. Some evolved differently.) which evolved bipedalism about five million years ago is not clear. Climate change is usually considered the most likely cause, with the desiccation of forests and the emergence of large plains benefiting walking upright over a semi-quadrupedal stance which combined well with tree-climbing (although Elaine Morgan offers some compelling arguments that suggest our ancestors were at some time actually semi-aquatic).

In any case, the first step from (a fairly chimpanzee-like) ancestor to modern humans was walking upright. Or at least walking exclusively on the hind limbs, freeing the hands for manipulating the environment.
The next step appears to have been the change of the diet - from herbivorous to omnivorous. Eating meat, a rich source of protein, allows a double, parallel development... the reduction of the intestine and the increase of brain size.
When we had gotten this far, the first species in the genus Homo emerged - Homo Habilis, about two million years ago.
Homo Erectus, its much larger descendant (slightly smaller than us) fanned out over Asia and Europe from Africa, apparently parenting Neanderthals (in Europe) and Homo Floresiensis (in Asia).
Finally, about 200,000 years ago, Homo Sapiens arose from Homo Erectus in Africa, and about 140,000 years later followed the footsteps of Erectus, eventually populating the world, taming livestock, cultivating crops, building cities and inventing gods.

The genetic evidence is clear in suggesting all of this. So is the fossil evidence. What do YOU have to support YOUR views?

Personally, I find it infinitely grander to realize that I am part of a gigantic tapestry of life, rolling from its beginnings, billions of years ago, in the blazing furnace of a dying star, than to believe a petty, incompetent and vicious god made my ancestor from dirt, 6000 years ago.

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

Jim Arvo — Sun, 14 May 2006 13:38:00 -0000

To Anonymous (5/14/2006 11:01 AM EST):

Given the wealth of information in print and on the web, there's really no excuse for not doing a bit of reading about evolution before posting your opinions on the matter. Don't expect to be spoon-fed here. I've tried to do that with a number of Christian visitors here and frankly, it's not worth my time. Once you've taken the time and initiative to educate yourself a little, come on back and we can have a meaningful discussion. I suggest starting your next post with a list of books that you're read on evolution. Fair enough?

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

xrayman — Sun, 14 May 2006 13:36:00 -0000

Marianas Trench Said,

Also, it seems to me that if I wanted to invent a religious cult, the first thing I'd try to do is convince my followers that they MUST BELIEVE, without questioning, or else be punished eternally.

I realize that fundies may get some kind of thrill from "sharing" their religion, but, since all your arguments boil do to "I believe because I believe because I believe ... and you'd better too or you'll go to hell," I don't think you'll be able to persuade anyone here. We've been there, done that, wised up, and utterly rejected it.

Those two paragraphs are Great. I am saving them to my files I use to do battle with Christians. Good stuff.

Jim,
You know what's really funny is the fact that I lost one of my oldest and dearest friends to a cult like version of Christianity. Unlike the Christian barn stormers who come witnessing to this site, he won't have a thing to do with the non Christian. No small talk, no friendly debate, nothing. He will not speak to me, period. I guess that one of the last things he ever said to me was, "You can't let your intellect get in the way of the word of God." The last letter I sent to him simply stated, "Dude you are fucking mentally ill, have a great life."

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

Jim Arvo — Sun, 14 May 2006 13:17:00 -0000

xrayman said "What the hell is the deal with throwing in the word 'Orthogonal' in your post?"

Ha! You know, I actually hesitated after writing that word, but decided to leave it. I figured that anybody worth having a discussion with would look it up if they didn't know what it meant. (By the way, a fantastic on-line resource is One Look. I use it all the time. I am now of the opinion that simply looking up a word is not sufficient; you need to look it up in multiple dictionaries to get a real sense of usage--and that's what One Look does.)

xrayman: "Why do these fucking Christians keep coming back? I couldn't see popping into a Christian message board for a second,..."

I've actually posted on a number of Christian web sites, but I adhere to a couple of basic rules when I do so. First, I never challenge the participants who simply engage in mutual affirmation of their beliefs, or discuss abstract theological matters. I will only speak up when I see blatant bigotry/hatred expressed toward atheists, or wildly fallacious arguments that purport to be "scientific". My second rule is to always be an polite as I can possibly be. In general, I do not chastise any of the believers; I merely ask questions, clarify scientific principles, provide links, etc. (There are exceptions to this. Occasionally I encounter believers to invest significant effort into denigrating atheists, and often with such unbridled contempt and dishonesty that I feel I need to be more direct in my challenges. But that is the exception, not the rule.)

What I have found is that often (maybe half the time) my remarks are met with blatant contempt. I've been called many nasty names, simply because I identified myself as an atheist. I've never tried to perform any kind of objective study, but my subjective impression is that, on average, the typical Christian visitor here is treated better than a typical atheist visitor on a Christian web site. In my opinion, that is the nature of belief; it is antithetical to questioning, and to a diversity of views. It tends to be insular. Hence, the very presence of an "outsider" is dangerous and disturbing.

Anyway, I can understand why you wouldn't even be interested in visiting them. I've found a few in which interesting theological discussions take place, but generally I find them to be quite boring and superficial.

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

Marianna Trench — Sun, 14 May 2006 12:42:00 -0000

Before he/she went off on the typical smug fundie tangent about how we sinners are going to roast, Anonymous wrote: "Please do not say that we evolved from monkeys. Now that is a far more far fetched idea then ours, you know, it just don't seem to work with all the different races that we have.I never hear any explanation on how that could have happened."

That's about the weirdest argument I've ever seem suggested. For starters, that there are different physical characteristics among the races - but very little genetic difference - does more to uphold than disprove evolution.

And, BTW, evolution explains the diversity of life on earth; it does not and was never intended to explain how life originated in the first place. It is possible, therefore, that there was some creative force that started the process, and that force might be called "god," for want of a better term. I don't know if this is true or not, and I don't think it is knowable, so that makes me an agnostic. Because I don't and can't know if there is a god, I can't "believe" in it, so that makes me an atheist (which merely means not having a belief in god).

But, let's put logic aside and declare that there absolutely, positively IS a god, no question about it. (No, I haven't lost my mind; it's just a hypothetical.) That still provides no evidence of the god described in the bible.

In fact, the more I tried to find biblegod and jesus, the more convinced I became that christianity, like other organized religions, is a scam. They were all invented by men, many with political/social agendas, and since it appears that humans cannot know the nature of god, their ideas are no more valid than mine or any average Joe Blow's.

Also, it seems to me that if I wanted to invent a religious cult, the first thing I'd try to do is convince my followers that they MUST BELIEVE, without questioning, or else be punished eternally.

I realize that fundies may get some kind of thrill from "sharing" their religion, but, since all your arguments boil do to "I believe because I believe because I believe ... and you'd better too or you'll go to hell," I don't think you'll be able to persuade anyone here. We've been there, done that, wised up, and utterly rejected it.

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

boomSLANG — Sun, 14 May 2006 12:38:00 -0000

Yo, Anonymass(and any other stray X-ians who have zero clue what evolution means),

For the bazillionth time, evolution doesn't say that "a man came from a monkey". To start with, evolution is both theory(like atomic "theory")...AND it is a fact(like gravity is a "fact") Theories in science are both testable AND falsifiable. On the other hand, spontaneous creation(Creationism) is neither fact NOR is it a theory. That's ....NEITHER.

Shooting "holes" in evolution does not, and WILL not, make true by "default" what is essentially "magic"(creationism). Magic has no referant in reality, and this is why man created a "God", as a being who CAN do "magic". But even more to the point--if you'd just surrender to the notion that one day you will cease to exist, you wouldn't be "forced" to believe such bullshit. Thanks.

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

xrayman — Sun, 14 May 2006 12:25:00 -0000

Big Daddy said,

"BTW, I recommend visiting christian forums from time to time if just for the comic relief. These people are so stupid it's downright amazing."

Big Daddy,
Speaking of comic relief, one of the funniest things I have ever seen was shortly after I found the truth. The Rev. Franklin Graham(Billy's son) was on Fox New's Hannity and Colmes because he was helping clean up in New Orleans during Spring Break. He stated how much God loved all the hurricane victims and he was so happy to do his work. Of course Sean Hannity(the Christian) praised him and God. Alan Colmes the liberal didn't let him off so easy. He asked the Rev. Graham why a loving God would allow this to happpen in the first place. It was the most hilarous display of "Christian Speak" that followed. You know the old, "We can't begin to understand our all mighty Gawwwwwd, but I assure you he loves us all." Then Alan would ask him again how a loving God could allow this to happen. It was great comedy for sure. He just kept that fake shit eating Christian smile on his face as he artfully dodged the real truth. I wished they would have qued up some zany music to go along with it. In the mean time I am sure followers of Graham's ministry were enticed to send in more cash to the Christian money machine his father started.

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

.:webmaster:. — Sun, 14 May 2006 12:14:00 -0000

"I would like to hear your theory."

I don't know, therefore, Jesus, the flying, un-dead god-man, exists.

Logic, it's not for Christians anymore.

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

xrayman — Sun, 14 May 2006 12:00:00 -0000

Hey Anonymous....I will make this short and sweet. If God can come from nothing, why can't the universe and all that inhabit it? This is not a site of confused people seeking God, this is a site for people who have found the truth(that there is no God) and are expanding on it. I just don't get why you all come here. If this God is so real, why doesn't he give us just a little teeny tiny sign to prove it once and for all? If he could talk to those who wrote the Bible 2000 years ago(personally it think this just proves that schizophrenia existed then), why doesn't he come down for a little “Q and A” session today? You Christians are some seriously delusional folks, but highly entertaining for sure.

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

Big Daddy, Junior & The Sp — Sun, 14 May 2006 11:52:00 -0000

xrayman wrote: "Why do these fucking Christians keep coming back? I couldn't see popping into a Christian message board for a second, not even to take a peek. I have no interest."

I know the question was not directed at me, but if I may interject my opinion, it is that (1) they are very insincere and uncomfortable in their "beliefs," knowing that they fail every test of rational thought, and and they therefore keep regurgitating them to try to shut out any other thoughts, and (2) they are arrogant, insufferable assholes who just like to see their own words.

BTW, I recommend visiting christian forums from time to time if just for the comic relief. These people are so stupid it's downright amazing!

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

Anonymous — Sun, 14 May 2006 11:01:00 -0000

xrayman,That was a nice descipiption of your brain and the way that the thought process works,pretty amazing isn't it.To believe that all that complicated human makeup just "happened". Use that brain of yours,God, The God of the bible made you in this complicated,thought processing,free choosing way! Please people,explain what your thinking,ever working mind has decided as how us humans came about. I would like to hear your theory.Please do not say that we evolved from monkeys. Now that is a far more far fetched idea then ours, you know, it just don't seem to work with all the different races that we have.I never hear any explanation on how that could have happened.Maybe you out there do not like the punishment of the torture chamber,as I have seen on here as the reference to hell,but I'm sorry to say that we have no choice in the matter.Just because you want to live the way that you feel like living and commit the sins that we all stuggle with,does not mean that by saying how wrong that eternal punishment is,that it's not going to happen to you. You guys on hear trying to get through to the ex christians must be commended for your efforts! Keep up the good work! Don't let them make you mad insulting what WE CHRISTIANS know is right.So far, you are impressive. I think I would have given up by now. I don't think the majority of them will have a change of heart, but maybe someone that comes across your wise and patient words will be touched and change. You will recieve your reward for your efforts.Good Luck and God bless you special guys.

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

.:webmaster:. — Sun, 14 May 2006 10:46:00 -0000

Servant said: "I am interceding with God on your behalf, that He would draw you with His Holy Spirit, and reveal to your heart that He loves you, so that you would believe, and follow Him."

And I am praying that the great Flying Spaghetti Monster will reveal himself to you, servant. I prophesy that we will find equal success in having our mutual prayers answered.

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

xrayman — Sun, 14 May 2006 10:44:00 -0000

Hey Jim,
What the hell is the deal with throwing in the word "Orthogonal" in your post? This guy with a two year degree has never heard it or seen it. Being in the medical field I thought it had something to do with the boney annatomy. So I went to dictionary.com and found the definition that fits....Mutually independent or well separated. It's always nice to learn a new one. Now I can go out and confuse a few people with it.

Why do these fucking Christians keep coming back? I couldn't see popping into a Christian message board for a second, not even to take a peek. I have no interest.

Re: Why would anyone want to be an atheist? - Letters to the Webmaster

.:webmaster:. — Sun, 14 May 2006 10:38:00 -0000

"Whoa...once again this is getting heated."

Who's getting heated? Personally, I'm entertained.