ExChristian.Net -- encouraging ex-Christians - Latest Comments in Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

sconnor — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 03:21:49 -0000

Oh how cute, Astreja has a little puppy who latched on to her.

Does anyone else see red flags with eddie's incessant pleas for someone to email him?

--S.

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

e_d_d_i_e — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 03:14:06 -0000

thank you for the link. I will check it out either tonight or tomorrow. Also
I will post my email again so that if you feel like something else would be
able to expand my knowledge (in this topic or any other) you can feel free
to hit me up. I do, however, know you are probably terribly busy so I will
not expect it.

Eddie.Mahaffey@Gmail.com

Thanks again

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Astreja — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:08:34 -0000

Quantum fluctuations? Well, the Wikipedia article is here, and references the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. I'm not aware of any particular books, but anything that deals with Heisenberg's work in some detail would probably shed some light on the subject.

By the way, I find your god-concept refreshing. A god that doesn't have a fit every time someone asks a legitimate question... That's so very different from what we usually get thrown at us.

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

e_d_d_i_e — Mon, 14 Sep 2009 00:34:04 -0000

Yea, I have been told my whole life about creation ex nihilo, and I think if
we are talking about an all powerful deity, it is possible for Him to change
nothingness into something-ness. I understand, also, the logical problem we
are faced with in this, in that once you think about nothing, it now has
similar characteristics to something. I'm not fully sure where I stand on
this, but dude thank you for cracking that egg of knowledge with the promise
of a side of head ache. I will think more on, I went to a Christian College
and we studied these ideas and proofs. But after my four years there I felt
a bit cheated on the study of differing ideas. We had some, but not enough.
I think the problem with Galileo and the Catholic church wasn't the science
(and I'm fairly certain you will agree, but I have been wrong before) the
problem was the lack of credibility the Catholic church would have if they
were proven wrong on something they ordained as "God and no questions need
be asked". I do believe in a God that invites questions, again I have said
almost every post, I am not trying to convert any of you, and I almost
prefer not having your trust because you are all so ready to explain why any
belief in this personal God is incorrect. Anyway, I think if the Catholic
church would have been actively seeking to find out more about this "creator
of the Universe" they would welcome challenge and differing ideas. I guess,
in the issue of faith, they put faith in their "knowledge" and in their
"influence" instead of the idea that if God is almighty enough to make a
Universe then He is almighty enough to accept people's criticism of Him.
(Please, please, I want to say it again, please know I am not trying to
force a religion on you, I greatly appreciate all I have been shown)

Astreja, do you know a good book I can read on the topic of "quantum
fluctuations"? I would love to explore the subject. And, I encourage and
accept any teaching you give me personally on the topic.

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Astreja — Sun, 13 Sep 2009 00:32:03 -0000

I'm an agnostic atheist, Eddie. I'm not entirely sure that the universe is a recent phenomenon that definitively started existing at time X. Because of the nature of quantum fluctuations, it's possible that "Nothing at All" and "Stuff" have been cheerfully popping in and out of existence indefinitely.

Here's a thought experiment guaranteed to make your head ache mightily: Try to imagine "absolutely nothing". The basic problem here is that even the thought of Nothing is a thing in itself, and it's rather difficult to completely clear the board.

That would be the realm whence ex nihilo creation would have to come. And could it really be nothingness, if some deity were thinking about changing it into something-ness?

As for theodicy, the problem solves itself as soon as one conceives of a non-omnimax god.

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

sconnor — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 19:00:17 -0000

Not my conversation, but...

Open forum -- everybody is welcome.

And we especially appreciate your input.

--S.

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

sconnor — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 18:58:30 -0000

e_d_d_i_e

Man I gotta be honest, I enjoy the hell out of these replies you give. Also, I appreciate you not holding back anything and also having only minor spelling errors and grammatical mistakes. Also, thank you for overlooking mine as well. Your wit is hilarious but anyway:

People make typos ALL the time on forums. I don't nitpick mistakes like these because everyone makes them -- although I hate when I make stupid-ass mistakes and generally I try to correct them if the edit button allows me to do this. I also abhor when the local news or cable news makes grammatical errors or typos -- they actually have people who edit this shit -- that's their entire job and I'm constantly seeing horrible mistakes.

If you are a skeptic or agnostic (not sure which you are, or even if you define the terms that differently or not) how do you believe the universe came into existence? I think I would like to hear your view on that point, it will help to continue painting a picture on your array of beliefs. Also, could you throw in your view point on Theodicy? I think I know what you will say to it, but I want to be sure and just a conclusion.

I have much to say on these subjects -- but why should I address your concerns when you ignore mine?

I still waiting for you to address my arguments about your "love rationalization" and the fact that we have to argue when we present our ideas -- no matter how much you protest we are NOT arguing.

Also you need to address my "faith/magical thinking argument" (unreliable method of obtaining and processing information)

So you first.

--S

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

daytripper1964 — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 18:56:47 -0000

I will be looking forward to the book, the title is perfect!

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

sconnor — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 18:56:35 -0000

I have much to say on these subjects -- but why should I address your concerns when you ignore mine?

I'm still waiting for you to address my arguments about your "love rationalization" and the fact that we have to argue when we present our ideas -- no matter how much you protest we are NOT arguing.

Also you need to address my "faith/magical thinking argument" (unreliable method of obtaining and processing information)

So you first.

--S.

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Hotlipshulafan — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 14:09:53 -0000

Eddie,

I agree with webmdave on cosmology. We have evidence to support a cosmological theory, or state of the Universe that spans back billions of years.

However, to postulate beyond that point requires 'faith', and when 'faith' is admitted as a standard, 'all' answers are plausibly correct, to include 'god did it', and 'the Easter Bunny did it'.

The terms agnostic and skeptic are mutually exclusive terms; however, an individual may believe in the tenants of philosophical agnosticism, and approach new or discordant information skeptically.

Theodicy, is bunk. It's an ethical/moral means to justify the existence of a god. The Universe is amoral, humans perceive particular acts as either good or bad, but it is a personal choice based on a personal standard.

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

e_d_d_i_e — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 11:47:04 -0000

hey hey, thanks for your opinions guys. What do you think Mr. Scott? Thanks
again to the other gentlemen!

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

freedy — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 11:28:02 -0000

Eddie,one thing is for sure. This petty,jealous,despotic and murderous god of bible fairytales did not create the universe.
How could something so insecure, vengeful and childlike have the intelligence to build a tree house, much less one single cell?
Just admit it,you don't know and nobody else knows,period.

What ever happened to a little mystery in life?Are you that insecure that you have to know the origin of everything?

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

webmdave — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 10:50:18 -0000

Not my conversation, but...

What do I believe about the how the universe came into existence? Who cares what I believe? If I believe a magical frog from another dimension vomited it out one night after eating a bad bug, what does my belief matter? What matters is the truth. And frankly, NO ONE KNOWS the answer to that question. So, the real answer to your question regarding the genesis of the universe is a simply "I don't know." That is the only honest answer anyone can give.

To presuppose that "GOD DID IT" is to presuppose first of all that there is such a thing as a god, which begs the question: How did this god come into existence? The other problem with the "GOD DID IT" so called answer, is that it is no answer at all. How did this god do it? What was the process, exactly? How long did it take? What power source did it use? The questions that come to mind when someone suggests that "GOD DID IT" are the same unanswered questions we have to begin with, because all anyone can say is "I DON'T KNOW HOW GOD DID IT."

So GOD DID IT and I don't know, are exactly the same answer.

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

sconnor — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 10:13:22 -0000

Sorry 'bout that.

No; no -- I thought it was funny. It's cool.

--S.

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

e_d_d_i_e — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 10:01:02 -0000

Man I gotta be honest, I enjoy the hell out of these replies you give. Also,
I appreciate you not holding back anything and also having only minor
spelling errors and grammatical mistakes. Also, thank you for overlooking
mine as well. Your wit is hilarious but anyway:

If you are a skeptic or agnostic (not sure which you are, or even if you
define the terms that differently or not) how do you believe the universe
came into existence? I think I would like to hear your view on that point,
it will help to continue painting a picture on your array of beliefs. Also,
could you throw in your view point on Theodicy? I think I know what you will
say to it, but I want to be sure and just a conclusion.

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

NonXNonExX — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 02:51:02 -0000

Sorry 'bout that. It was late at night and i was putting off going to sleep after a long and winding hard day's night. Of course i knew exactly what you meant. Sometimes we forget that "All You Need Is Love," especially when dealing with our friends.

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

NonXNonExX — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 02:48:03 -0000

unregistered peter,
Yes, that's exactly what i meant, but you did explain it more fully and clearly. Thank you.

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Astreja — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 23:37:45 -0000

eddie_with_dashes: "So you do feel it necessary to berate me and other people that I know and love that are Christians?"

If they show up here and start to preach at us... Yes. Because that's a direct violation of the purpose of this forum. It's here to support us, not to give you a soapbox to preach about your beliefs. If you can't find it in yourself to respect us, at home in our place, then don't expect anything but derision from our side.

"Would you be more welcoming to a Muslim?"

Nope. We play whack-a-troll with them, too.

For the record, there has also been a self-described Buddhist here in recent years. We ran him out of town on a rail, too, because he was too busy yapping at us to listen.

You sound like an okay guy, Eddie, but we really don't want to talk about your perspective on faith. Find anything else to talk about, and perhaps there can be actual dialogue here.

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

sconnor — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 23:35:24 -0000

XPD

I'm not just blowing smoke up your ass.....sometimes your writing borders on fuc(king genius....NO SH*T!

I appreciate the accolades but honestly, it isn't anything but hard work that anyone -- who uses critical thinking and reason - can do.

Interestingly enough I have have been writing a book with the working title: God Died: My Journey Into Unbelief After the Death of My Son.

--S.

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

XPD — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:16:20 -0000

Scott -

It's rare that I read every word of a lengthy dialogue, here at ECN, but this one had me glued to my screen for 45 minutes. I had not been following this thread and was able to read all of it, from beginning to ending, in one setting.

Your culminating 20 sentences...."It's the same magical thinking..." was masterful! You should think about authoring a book! Thank you so much for your rational and intelligent postings!

I'm not just blowing smoke up your ass.....sometimes your writing borders on fuc(king genius....NO SH*T!

Thanks brother,

XPD

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

sconnor — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:30:49 -0000

"necessary" should be "necessarily"

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

HurleyJoeTheInfidel — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:09:29 -0000

No one is that nice to a complete stranger, and I think it's quite odd that he wants to "just talk". It's sad that the xtians don't get that this is EXchristian.net and not Imalovelychristian.net or Ilovejesuschristwithallmyhe..., but EXCHRISTIAN.net. To all of you Christians: Nothing you can do or say will ever get us to reconvert. We left Christianity for a reason. LEAVE US ALONE.

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

buffettphan — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 17:44:13 -0000

Peter, Thackerie, Juan, and Sconnor,

I'm also getting the same impression. If they don't have doubts about their faith, why else would they be here other than to earn brownie points by trying to re-convert us? Anyone who has sincere doubts wouldn't be constantly repeating the same ol' same ol' time after time. They'd spend more time reading and poking around this website instead of blathering at the mouth.

Speaking of same ol' same ol'..... Did anyone notice that it looks like 'karla' aka 'kasmpook' is now appearing in the shoutbox as 'LadyK'? (Look to the right.) Sconnor's name caught my eye. She's quoting him from the Jim Bob Duggar thread. Will she ever go away?

Edit: LadyK's comments seem to be gone now. Her comment was right right after "nivek, birthdaybot ladyk, why do we care about this? 2009-09-11 2:28 PM Off " There's a little black rectangle showing now. Curses! Foiled again! She's probably trying to think of yet another username and a new way to bother us. lol

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

juan_marco — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 17:39:49 -0000

peter:"We've seen the same a few days here too with [????] who tried to privately contact Juan."

Yep. Drop the least little hint that you may be open to conversion, it's like they smell blood in the water. They are eager to chalk up another won soul. :D

Re: Where are you, God? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Thackerie — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 17:12:21 -0000

That's the impression I get, too, Peter. Of course, I get the same impression from most of our christian "guests." What the hell do they want here, if not to try to recruit us back into their delusion?

Some of them say they just want to tell us about what they believe? But why should we care what they believe? It's just the same old nonsense that we used to believe before we wised up.

And then we get the ones who claim they just want to "learn" from us. But when anyone responds to them with well-informed, rational points, they just dismiss that entirely and go on to repeat, repeat, and repeat again their baseless assertions.

That stuff gets boring pretty fast. I'm tired of the christ-bots who keep jumping in here and derailing discussions. Rude, arrogant b-turds!