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Instead of finding a better mythology, let's teach people to discover and reject bullshit. Of course that would produce ungovernable people. But I'm about to start recreating the plot of the Matrix so I'll stop.
Peace and logic.
I must admit I only know one witch but she is the most wonderfull person I have ever met. I like the wiccan "philosophy" much better than any other religion I have looked into. I respect it more, is what I'm trying to say. I am an athiest with agnostic tendancies so I must admit I doubt that the magick works, but I am open to the possibility of it being a natural phenomenon. If it works for you, great. I'd much rather talk to a witch than a fundie christian any day.
I am glad to hear your story and hope to hear more. Family can screw with you like nothing else can. I know from experience that family and christianity are a dangerous combination of mental strife that takes strength to overcome.
You have brighted my cheeks an warmed my heart.
As for your choice of beliefs, I have to say that as long as you are happy, it is fair game.
In my view, the purpose of existing is to have a good life, not TO BE RIGHT. That's right. I'll say that again. I DO NOT HAVE TO BE RIGHT, just happy.
So Trish, if you enjoy your rituals and they aren't oppressing, then I have no problem with it. I would have a problem if (1) it demanded money of you, (2) it made you feel guilty, (3) it made you miserable, (4) you practiced it out of fear.
Sometimes people fail to realize that people--like you and me--with psycho mothers and a shitty life need some sort of a community to hang around with. That, I suspect, is what Wicca does for you.
I prefer to hang out with atheists and agnostics, and to belong to community choirs and such. But that is just my way. If I tried to impose my way on you, then it would be religion.
Keep having fun!
Josh
Age 21 Location StL
After a few years, though, I found that the effectiveness of spells and magick was pretty much the same as that of prayer, so I’m pretty much generally agnostic now. I even told my pagan husband that the other day and unlike the vast majority of xtians I know, he was fine with it!
So, all in all, I gotta say that the pagans are a great group of people who don’t evangelize and believe that everyone ends up in the same afterlife no matter what they believe. Huzzah!
Aaw, that's a nice gesture, however, what does it really mean to "apologize" on someone elses behalf? Answer: Nothing. Regardless, it is a common misconception that we deconverted because of "other Christians", or "imperfect people". The belief, itself, is far from "perfect". In fact, it is abhorant and barbaric, which is enough reason to dismiss it.
Anony/Josh: But God himself is real.
I'd be happy to have a look at your evidence for this claim.
Anony/Josh: What is it going to hurt if you ask him to show himself again. If he doesn't you don't lose anything. But if he does you will gain everthing.
You'll see, if you read the testimonies, that many of us already wasted huge portions of our lives waiting on an "answer" from "God". I, personally, will not waste another nano-second on such a thing. If "God" exists, and "God" is "omniscient", then "God" surely knows what it will take to convince me of "God's" existence. Furthermore, you say that you know "God is real", right? Right. So apparently, it's perfectly "okay" to KNOW that "God" exists, thus, negating the the need for "faith". So please don't tell me that "God" wants me to have "faith". I want evidence.
"What is it going to hurt if you ask him to show himself again. If he doesn't you don't lose anything. But if he does you will gain everthing(sic)."
Man, that's called "Pascal's Wager", I'll bet Pastor never told you that.
And most of us around here consider it a "sucker bet" because we've asked him to "show Himself" till we were purple in the face.
But you're young, yet. I was young and believed in various imaginary friends too.
I just wanted to say that I am a Christian and I want to truely apologize for the way you were treated. I to having grown up in the Church have seen alot of the falseness in the church, including the hippocracy.
Hey Josh, What's a hippocracy? Is it some sort of government in hippo culture or what?
(Sorry, that was bad, I just couldn't resist.)
This video is a pretty good summary of our history with asking "Yahweh" to show himself.
fjell
What will it hurt to ask god to show himself? Nothing at all. Here we go: "Hi God, please show yourself if you are there..."
(Ten minutes later.) How long should I wait? What should I look for? Should I phrase my request differently, or do something differently? Please do tell.
To John of Indiana: Josh's challenge, as stated, is actually very weak version of Pascal's wager. Josh did not insist on belief in his deity--only that we put in the request. Of course, almost everyone here as actually made that request (and sincerely too, I might add), but I usually comply anyway. So far, no invisible deities, creators, demigods, or goddesses have decided to contact me.
-Bluescreen
Thanks for your story. Has a couple of parallels with my own. For years I was scared to death that I was going to die a split second after I had committed a sin, and go to hell. Basically spent my whole life praying to God to forgive me for something, and I'm not exaggerating, by the time I was a teenager, I would say a prayer asking for forgiveness about once a minute.
THE big thing which set me apart from my parents was when I told them I had slept with my girlfriend. It all went downhill from there. I suspect that for most people who escape from a fundamentalist Christian upbringing, sex is THE big thing which causes tension with their family, but is also THE big thing which helps them escape from the cult. It's just a shame that one's first sexual experiences have to be associated with such trauma.
I'm with the others on the whole Wicca thing- don't believe in it, being an atheist and all, but I will defend to the death your right to believe in it. Yah! freedom of expression.
Please don't feel like you have to add a whole lot of disclaimers before you tell people how abusive your mother was. I didn't realise how commonly females can abuse others until I had an abusive girlfriend.
Finally, regarding Josh, I always find it galling when Christians try to make an apology and then suggest that you try to forgive them/those who have hurt you. They know, and they know that we remember, the old line from the bible, that if you can't forgive others, then God can't forgive you. It is emotional manipulation, pure and simple.
Never mind, Josh, I KNOW why he is silent. It's simple. "He" doesn't exist. If he did, we wouldn't need faith, right?
Dear Trish, I too left Christianity for Paganism (Wicca) for many of the same reasons you cited, but what I eventually found was that I had merely substituted one god for another. None of whom, as yet, are verifiable. I eventually chose reason over faith, because I didn’t want my life to be based on what I came to see as lies. I sincerely hope that you get what you need emotionally from Wicca, but please keep in mind that it is okay to continue to evolve in your personal beliefs. You may find Christianity appealing again, or you may continue on in Wicca, or maybe you will find that Secular Humanism fits your needs. You may even enjoy looking at Unitarian Universalism, which is sort of an umbrella over a lot of different faiths or lack of. Regardless of the path you choose to follow, I wish you happiness and inner peace.
That's a really horrible childhood you've had to put up with. I'm glad that you've moved on. I guess that to a Christian, you're breaking the commandment of "Honor thy (abusive) father and thy (freaking crazy) mother." It seems like the Christian god always punishes the victim, huh? Oh well, I'm glad that he doesn't exist.
Some people, like Anonymous/Josh say that you have to forgive your family. Well, doesn't even God say that people have to be genuinely sorry for something or else they won't be forgiven? We obviously know that you've always tried to be civil to your family, but they never change and accept any blame. (Those who don't believe this should take a look at the 'The INFAMOUS "God Warrior"' video on YouTube or Google Video to see the kind of person you're dealing with.) Thus, I think that starting a new life, with a new mindset is the most important thing to do. Going back to your family will only cause more pain.
You are more than fully justified if you never talk to them again, and you shouldn't even need to preface your judgements of them by a "Sorry, but..." You don't need to be sorry. They do. But that's the problem, isn't it? You do nothing wrong and yet you feel a bit sorry, and they are completely wrong yet never feel the slightest bit sorry. The best thing for you is that you've moved on. I also think that if you have free time, you should take up some martial art like Taekwondo so that you'll feel less vulnerable.
As for the comments to your post, I most like Lorena's. I'm an atheist, and I am of course for the promotion of science and reason, but I'm happy that you found a belief (Wicca) that is good for you. Because of your tolerant mindset, I don't see you cursing atheists or science or anything, and after all you've been through, it's just good to know that you're finally happy. I wish you all the best in the future.
Consequently, I've made it a point not to be a Christian because of how great Christians are, but to be a Christian because of how great Christ was.
Although I am a Christian, I sincerely sympathize with what you have and are going through. And I respect the fact that you took the initiative to do your own research on the Bible, as the internet is not always the most reliable place to "rely" upon.
My only question is this: was your research limited to only those authors who were against the Bible, or did you also read respectable authors who defended the Bible as well? I think in ordered to arrive at a balanced decision, both are needed.
With sincere grief over what you've gone through,
~Bridget
fjell
Welcome to the site. You really do seem way nicer than most of the professed Christians who post here! Your question sounds like something I might have asked a few years ago. It does seem naive to me now, though. If you've been raised in the church, you've already heard all of those pro-Bible voices loud and clear. And anyone honestly doing research is sure to look at both/several sides.
On the other hand, I can see how someone might never have read any of the intelligent defenses of the Bible, even though they grew up in a church.
Anyway... wow, Trish. Your story is really compelling and sad, but the ending is encouraging. While I am not a Wiccan (I'm an atheist), I think it's great that you've found something that resonates with you. Wicca seems much more peaceful, natural, healing, and harmonious than Christianity and the other Abrahamic faiths. I hope things continue to go well for you!
I am also raised in a christian family with a wonderfull mother that has always let me g my own way but still always sharing her faith with me.
I want to numerous youth groups as a teen and I was rejected from many of them because I spat at the falsness of it all.
Whe I was 16 I was raped by my youth leaders cousin and started hating the church.
About 5 weeks ago I was at a party and began feeling really strange towards the evening. a normal grown up party with nice food and coctails yet something didn't feel right in me. somewhere around 3 in the mourning my "feeling" turned to horror and anguish and a terrible thought crossed my mind-- had Jesus come and was I left behind.. I called the one person I new would be gone if he really had come.. my mother.
after about 15 minuts she answered her cell phone and I was able to talk to her.
Today I understand that Jesus really does love me. and HE hs NEVER forced himself on me. He has always been there patiently waiting for me to understand who he truely is and today I can finally feel that wonderfull joy of Knowing that I will meet him when I die. The Devil is real but he doesn't seem like the awfull picture we most of the time make him.
He is a lie wih partial truth just to make us be able to exuse ourselves for walking down the wrong path.
I do hope you understand that people and the church are not God and that Jesus never wanted to push you or force you into believing. He is not scared of the devil. Bt he is an awsome God and he loves you and he will patiently wait for you because he loves you.
"About 5 weeks ago I was at a party and began feeling really strange towards the evening. a normal grown up party with nice food and coctails yet something didn't feel right in me. somewhere around 3 in the mourning my "feeling" turned to horror and anguish and a terrible thought crossed my mind-- had Jesus come and was I left behind.. I called the one person I new would be gone if he really had come.. my mother.
after about 15 minuts she answered her cell phone and I was able to talk to her"
---
Anon,
I fail to understand how this experience made you a sudden believer in god?
You state that something didn't FEEL right at this party you attended, right.
You then tell us at 3am you felt horror and anguish and a thought enters your head that the rapture just occurred....is that correct?
It then takes a long 15 mins (at 3 in the morning....no surprise there) for your almost-raptured mother to answer her phone.
1. What I see here in your story is you weren't feeling well at some party.
2. Feeling ill can easily make us think of some not-so-nice things, as anyone here would surely agree with.
3. So your mind drifts to your mother (which isn't surprising given that you were feeling ill) and you then let your mind drift widely to believe that god's rapture has just happened.
4. For whatever reason, you are SURE he would take your mother and perhaps leave you behind.
You don't say why he would take your mother. After all, if he was real, isn't it up to god and not you, as to whom he takes away?
5. Was the point of it taking a long 15 minutes for mom to answer the phone, just to get the reader all worried that god really took her?
6. In the end, you did reach your mother and she wasn't gone from earth, so obviously this rapture never occurred that night.
You didn't feel well, your ill self craved your mother because you didn't feel well.
You probably got worried what you would do if you felt ill and your mom was no longer around, but instead of viewing her as having died, you instead see her god taking her away to heaven....a much nicer ending for mom in your mind I suppose.
So nothing supernatural occurred in your story. Heck, not even some rare coincidence either.
So then, what exactly is in this story that was so life-changing for you?
I only see you scaring your own self to pieces here and nothing more.
How did this event convince you that god was real and this rapture thing might happen at any minute?
ATF (who once again see's nothing but EMOTIONS in a xtian story)
Or maybe the rapture did happen when you felt it, it’s just that your mom wasn’t rapture because she has a secret life involving a pact with the devil and is into bestiality and S & M. Some of the most seemly pious people can have the darkest, deepest closets around. A closet that you don't have privy to but God does. And He saw that your mom was BAD. That she was a very, very bad girl.
Or maybe there is no such thing as The Rapture because it is a completely intellectually bankrupt concept.
QUOTE: "Your question sounds like something I might have asked a few years ago. It does seem naive to me now, though. If you've been raised in the church, you've already heard all of those pro-Bible voices loud and clear. And anyone honestly doing research is sure to look at both/several sides."
I found that the people in your church are not always the best barometers when measuring how well Christianity can be defended.
For me personally, I only started getting coherent answers to my tough questions when I stopped asking people in my church (who probably don't know much more I than I do) and started reading books by people who actually know what they're talking about. It's a breath of fresh air really -- to find out that there really are people out there who can defend what they believe intelligently!
~Bridget
Atheism is the only right way to be...
"I stopped asking people in my church (who probably don't know much more I than I do) and started reading books by people who actually know what they're talking about"
---
Bridget,
And what authors did you read, who you say 'know what they're talking about', pray tell?
I'm sure everyone here would love to know.
ATF
As you have broken away from the bullying of your family, I hope you will reject the more intolerant messages here as well. I think one can, technically be an atheist and also a Wiccan and/or pagan. Clearly you can be an atheist and still be dogmatic.
I'm sure everyone here would love to know."
Perhaps I could point you to Lee Strobel. Having once been an atheist himself, he is someone who can particularly relate to the people on this site.
I'm not quite sure exactly what you are looking for though -- whether you're looking for something that addresses Christianity itself or just addresses theism in general. F. F. Bruce has done some amazing analysis of New Testament reliability, and I find it really interesting to read "Does God Exist: The Craig-Flew Debate," considering the fact that Antony Flew converted to a form of theism only a few years later.
In short, I'm not trying to change anyone's views here. I'm just trying to offer some reliable/contrasting sources to take a look at. Personally, I'd really recommend the Craig-Flew debate -- who doesn't love a good debate?
~Bridget
You could. Have you ever checked this out?
jinkx898: [Lee Strobel]Having once been an atheist himself, he is someone who can particularly relate to the people on this site.
Having once been an Atheist, himself? Um, we were all once Atheists. We were born Atheists---that is, with no knowledge, no "faith", no belief in God/gods. Furthermore, at face-value, a book titled "A Case for Faith" could support myriad other religions, as well. You see, once you enter "faith" into the equation; once you believe something in lack of evidence to it being verifiable, practically anything can be made "believable".
jinkx898: ....and I find it really interesting to read "Does God Exist: The Craig-Flew Debate," considering the fact that Antony Flew converted to a form of theism only a few years later
To the best of my knowledge, Mr Flew converted to Deism. And if I'm right about that, there is no "form" of Deism, for it is merely the belief in a generic non-personal entity. An that, of course, doesn't help the Christian argument one iota.
jinkx898: In short, I'm not trying to change anyone's views here.
That's good, because there exists a mind-independent objective truth, and most here have rejected "faith", and/or, revelation, as a means for finding that truth. Been there, done that.
Lee Strobel is the Gospel: CLICK HERE
http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/flew-interview.pdf
It might be interesting for you to do some research on some of the theories, scientific findings, and arguments that Flew says influenced his conversion.
Once again, I respect your views and am not seeking to prove Christianity at all. My only wish is that in your quest for objective truth you would also objectively read literature on both sides of the spectrum, not just those things that go through an atheistic filter.
~Bridget
Okay, Deism and Theism are both derived from the word "god"---so in that aspect, yes, you could say that "Deism" is a related to "Theism", if semantics is the name of the game. However, the two beliefs, themselves, have way more differences than similarities. Furthermore, it was very telling, and obvious, that the interviewer was "leading the witness", so-to-speak, with his particular line of questioning. In fact, it was the interviewer who unceasingly refered to Flew's philosphy as his(Flew's) "Theism", not Flew, himself. Additionally, it was fairly obvious that the interviwer was a Christian apologist....again, because of his blatant "leading the witness" approach. Call me crazy, but that doesn't seem too "objective" to me.
All in all, the strongest arguments for an "Intelligent Designer" I infered from that interview where the Ontological argument, along with the Anthropic Principle(the supposed, "fine tuning" of the Universe). Both rely mostly on intuition; both boil down to the bare assertion fallacy. There is no direct evidence that the Universe is "fine tuned" specifically for humankind.
And again, none of this lends one iota of credence to Christianity---at least, not anymore than it does to either of the other two major monotheistic religions. Also note, that Flew made it crystal clear that he doesn't believe in an afterlife, and to me, that is worth mentioning, because that's why Theists are motivated to be believers in the first place.
From the interview: "I still hope and believe there's no possibility of an afterlife." ~ Anthony Flew.
There are considerably few websites out here on the Internet offering any "contrast" to the myriad sites promoting Christianity.
Regardless, an incomplete story about an octogenarian philosopher that may or may not have changed his views about there being the possibility of some unexplainable force in the universe, coupled with the mention of a failed news reporter who found a popular topic and guaranteed market from which to make an easy fortune is not evidence in support of your religion.
I mentioned Lee Strobel because he can relate to many atheists here. I mentioned F.F. Bruce because I believe he provides the best information about the New Testament based purely on historical fact (he does not try to force his faith, he merely states the facts). ATF, if you really are interested, you can find a copy of his major work online:
http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/ffbruce/ntdocrli/ntdocont.htm
I mentioned the debate between William Lane Craig and Antony Flew because they both are/were major front-runners in their beliefs, and focus primarily on the scientific/philosophical aspect of the debate. In addition, the fact that Antony Flew converted to theism after devoting nearly 80 years of his life to its demise is, to me, something worth looking into.
I apologize if you thought that I was trying to prove Christianity, for that was not my purpose. I was simply trying to provide ATF with some good sources to start off with.
QUOTE: "All in all, the strongest arguments for an "Intelligent Designer" I infered from that interview where the Ontological argument, along with the Anthropic Principle(the supposed, "fine tuning" of the Universe)."
I'm not quite sure if that is exactly what he was stressing, for instance, on page 5 he says, "My own initial lack of enthusiasm for the ontological argument developed into strong
repulsion . . . "
He seemed to stress the importance of recent scientific discoveries ("I think that the most impressive arguments for God’s existence are those that are
supported by recent scientific discoveries"), DNA evidence, and big bang cosmology. Also, he seemed to like the Philosophies of Aristotle and Aquinas as well.
Once again, I'm not looking to debate these ideas. I'm just attempting to provide somewhat of a springboard for further research.
Thanks for your time,
~Bridget
Yet, you seem to be putting an exorbitant amount of effort into the idea of "God", vs "no-God"...e.g. "Theism" vs "Atheism". Obviously, if a deistic "god" can be established, then it's not too unreasonable to conclude that the Christian posits said god as the Christian biblegod, just like a Muslim posits said god as the Islamic god of the Qur'an. Hence, why you're a Christian/Theist, not a Deist, and hence why the Muslim is a Theist, not a Deist. In other words, it's implicit that you are "supporting" your religion.
In any event, here is the inquiry in question:
ATF: "And what authors did you[jinkx898] read, who you say 'know what they're talking about', pray tell? I'm sure everyone here would love to know."
Jinkx898, did you not catch the skepticism in this inquiry? Yes, of course you did; it's not as if ATF's non-belief is hanging in the balance, or that he's at a crossroads. If it's not clear, we are concerning ourselves with tangible evidence, not "faith". When one uses the word "know", that usually implies some sort of evidence. "A Case for Faith" does not rest on evidence; it rests on "faith", hence, the title.
jinkx898: I mentioned Lee Strobel because he can relate to many atheists here.
He can relate, how? Was he ever a Christian, then not a Christian? Saying that he was an Atheist is a moot point. If I'm wrong on that, please feel free to explain how it's relevant, if you feel inclined.
jinkx898: I mentioned F.F. Bruce because I believe he provides the best information about the New Testament based purely on historical fact (he does not try to force his faith, he merely states the facts).
No amount of "historical fact" proves zombies exist, either materially, or as "spirits" who supposedly live in the clouds, or in our cardiovascular organs.
jinkx898: In addition, the fact that Antony Flew converted to theism after devoting nearly 80 years of his life to its demise is, to me, something worth looking into.
Let's review: Anthony Flew did NOT convert to "Theism"; he converted to Deism. I am inclined to think that you are intentionally misrepresenting a man's position to support your own. Theism deals with a supernatural "God"; it deals with an afterlife, and all of the trimmings that go with "Faith". Deism, at least in the capacity that Flew describes it, does not deal with any of those things.
In conclusion, as ex-christians, Anthony Flew's position on "God" doesn't hurt our position one bit, nor does it help yours.
"The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation."
When I describe Antony Flew's beliefs, this is what I have in mind.
QUOTE: "As ex-christians, Anthony Flew's position on "God" doesn't hurt our position one bit, nor does it help yours."
Please remember that I was not seeking to "hurt" your position in any way but was seeking to offer bibliographies for further research. A good defense is best built by studying your attackers. Likewise, if you wish to best defend your beliefs, it is always wise to study those who differ.
Also, keep in mind that I was originally talking to AtheisticToothFairy, who is (I assume) an atheist. Therefore, my primary purpose was not to provide sources addressing anti-Christian sentiments, but to provide ATF with sources addressing atheism.
QUOTE: "Jinkx898, did you not catch the skepticism in this inquiry? Yes, of course you did; it's not as if ATF's non-belief is hanging in the balance, or that he's at a crossroads."
I don't remember saying that he was. He asked for examples, and I provided. Of course I understood that he was skeptical.
QUOTE: (Regarding Lee Strobel) "He can relate, how? Was he ever a Christian, then not a Christian? Saying that he was an Atheist is a moot point."
Lee Strobel was an atheist, therefore he is able to relate to those who hold to atheism on this blog. Considering that I was originally talking to AtheisticToothFairy, it would make sense for me to assume that Lee Strobel could relate to his beliefs in some ways.
QUOTE: "'A Case for Faith' does not rest on evidence; it rests on "faith", hence, the title."
I don't ever remember mentioning "A Case for Faith" in my posts.
QUOTE: "No amount of 'historical fact' proves zombies exist, either materially, or as 'spirits' who supposedly live in the clouds, or in our cardiovascular organs."
If you do not wish to read the book that I offered, that is your choice and I won't hold that against you. If it is any comfort, I don't believe that the book addresses the existence of "zombies" or "spirits" who "live...in our cardiovascular organs." As I said, it relies on historical facts (or "tangible evidence" as you might say).
In summation, please recognize that my original posts (primarily the one to which ATF replied) were written with the intent of showing the importance of personal research and objectivity -- not reliance on emotions. In essence, I mostly agree with your methods of truth-seeking.
If I was misunderstood, I apologize.
~Bridget
"The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation."
When I describe Antony Flew's beliefs, this is what I have in mind.
That may very well be what you had/have in mind---however, my point is, when you unceasingly refer to him a "Theist", you negate/contradict much of that description, and further, since you are admittedly a Theist, it raises an eyebrow. 'That simple.
jinkx898: A good defense is best built by studying your attackers. Likewise, if you wish to best defend your beliefs, it is always wise to study those who differ.
I agree that to be as objective as possible, one must examine both sides of an issue. However, again, where Theism is concerned---and considering that we are former Christians---most, if not all of us, have examined one of the supposed most reliable sources of revelation known to man, that of course being the Holy bible. And what we've concluded, is that while it may have some poetic truths in it's pages, it is not the work/"Word" of any supernatural being, or Creator of the Universe. In other words, we've concluded that Christianity is man-made myth, just like you probably consider all other religions but your own as man-made myth.
Now, as far as Deism is concerned, if there is exists an impartial, impersonal, 'pantheistic' type of entity---the kind as described by Flew---then so what? I don't see any implications for humankind, and if there are any, I'd welcome you to tell what they are, and how you've aquired this knowledge.
boomSLANG: " 'A Case for Faith' does not rest on evidence; it rests on 'faith', hence, the title."
jinkx898: I don't ever remember mentioning "A Case for Faith" in my posts.
No, but you list Strobel as a source, and I thought Strobel authored a book called "A Case for Faith". Either way, is Christianity not a "Faith"?
Let me just ask you, point-blank: Is your Theistic worldview based on knowledge, and hence, empirical evidence that there exists a supernatural personal "Creator of the Universe"? Or do you believe/accept that notion on "faith"?
jinkx898: If you do not wish to read the book that I offered, that is your choice and I won't hold that against you. If it is any comfort, I don't believe that the book addresses the existence of "zombies" or "spirits" who "live...in our cardiovascular organs." As I said, it relies on historical facts (or "tangible evidence" as you might say).
If this author argues for a Divine "Jesus", then yes, he endorses those attributes I mentioned, whether he "addresses" them, or not. On the other hand, if he argues for "Jesus" as merely a historic mortal-man, then again...so what? That certainly doesn't qualify him as "Creator of the Universe".
And yes, I'm fully aware that you were addressing someone else, but this is an open forum, as well.
I have no desire to discuss or prove Christianity on this blog as it is designed for non-Christians.
However, if you truly would like to discuss my personal beliefs, Boomslang, please send me an e-mail. Otherwise, I tend to think that you only wish to get into an argument with me, which is completely unproductive. I like debating, not arguing.
At any rate, I do enjoy discussing my faith in a non-hostile environment. So if you truly want to talk further, please send me an email.
Thanks,
~Bridget
That would be an admirable position to take, if it were entirely true up to this point. The thing of it is, I'm just not convinced it's been entirely true all along, based on some of your previous posts. For instance, if you aim to qualify pop'-christian authors as "examples" of people who "know what they're talking about", then IMO, you are pimping Christianity. And yes, I fully understand that you were asked to give sources, notwithstanding, whatever sources you offer, I would think it implicit that once you enter them, that you are trying to qualify them as "Truth", or else, why bother? Either way, if/when one does enter Christian-based items as a source, it becomes 'fair game' for the very reason that this is an ex-christian site. 'Hope that makes sense.
Additionally, on more than one occasion you've refered to Antony Flew's philosophies as "Theism", and continued to do so even after you were corrected. The interviewer even commits the same fallacy. And I'm sorry, but I don't think that two out of two Christians would commit that fallacy by "accident".
jinkx898: However, if you truly would like to discuss my personal beliefs, Boomslang, please send me an e-mail. Otherwise, I tend to think that you only wish to get into an argument with me, which is completely unproductive. I like debating, not arguing. At any rate, I do enjoy discussing my faith in a non-hostile environment. So if you truly want to talk further, please send me an email.
Who, exactly, has been "hostile"? And are you suggesting that I'm seeking to argue with you just because I haven't fully accepted your representation of this discussion? I certainly hope not.
Honestly, while I appreciate your politenness on the matter, I simply believe you're a being a tad disingenuous, that's all. As far as I'm concerned, this discussion can really come to a close, unless you see a reason to continue it.
Best Regards.
If you open yourself up you can actually talk to the gods and have valuable spiritual friends that will help you. Christians cant claim that or they will just say that they are "demons" or "Satan" or a skitsophrenic (I hope I spelled that right) reaction, or evil spirits.
Good job in breaking free wish you the best of luck. I believe if everyone went back to the more ancient nature loving religions (paganism, spiritual satanism (not the levayian or psycho bullshit kinds), Sumerianism, or anything from before the Jews and xians took over that has not been corrupted by them try to see through the bullshit angels really are the ones behind this.
By the way I have a lot of respect for some of the wiccian practices and I do read books by wiccian authors from time to time. Sorry this is way to long I just love to write.
This is the second time you've posted your cute little testimonial.
It is apparent you are bereft of the ability to think logically and are enslaved by magical thinking. I wish you the ability to eventually free yourself of these delusions.
Please, please hook up with a non-religious psychiatrist to help you work through your mental health issues.