Jim: "Don't forget cdmon, the male was made from dirt. The female was formed from a male rib."
True, except that the rib came from man, and man came from dirt...
So females, not direct decendents of dirt, but still decendents of dirt by way of man's rib.
And as Wayne Algar would say... "And monkeys might fly out of ass!"
I suppose they'd rather come from dirt than monkeys.
cheers
GOD SENT
· 4 years ago
Penn, I was reading your article and I really felt lead to post a comment for you. It seems to me that the simple fact is you spend your days in constant observation, trying to prove to yourself and others that there "is no God".
These are your words
"So, anyone with a love for truth outside of herself has to start with no belief in God and then look for evidence of God. She needs to search for some objective evidence of a supernatural power"
First off God is Love, Love is God God is truth. These are not my words but words of the Holy Scriptures. I find your statements very contradicting and hypocritical. I find it funny that you claim to be a better person because you dont believe in God. You say "I am not Greedy" My question to you is this... What is greedy? And how do you know that your not greedy? What Moral code do you follow? The Bible? What moral code do you know that would make you either "greedy" or not? If you dont belive in God, do you have a moral system? Did you make one up? God's law is the Moral code for humans to follow, so therefore if you deny God's law how can you say your not greedy? You have no moral code correct? Or deep down do you really believe that the Bible could possibly be the Moral code for Human beings? Your disbelief shows me that deep down you have a belief, you have some kind of Moral code pre programed into you.... You proved that. So where did this Moral code come from? How do you know what is right or wrong? Its God that convicts you of your wrongdoings. You say "I have Love" My question to you is this... Is love a good thing? And if you say yes... How do you know its a good thing? Is it something that is just pre programed into your existence? God is love therefore without God you dont have "true love" You might experience high emotions and feelings... But feelings are not facts. You say "I have blue skies" Do you really? Where? Are they in your home? On your own personal sky canvas? What? You have blue skies? What a selfish statement to consider the fact that YOU HAVE BLUE SKIES.... Does everyone else live in complete darknesss? With no sky? How selfish dear... And the same goes for rainbows.. You say
." So, believing there is no God lets me be proven wrong and that's always fun. It means I'm learning something.
So are you proven wrong alot? It seemed to me that you are someone that is always right. Can I prove you wrong? I think I can prove you wrong. Is that idea possible? Or does it stir up feelings of anger and possible torment inside you. Are you really able to be proven wrong? Are you learning something? I think today you are learning something. If you really want to be proven wrong i challenge you to do one thing... Pray I want you to pray that God would prove you wrong I want you to pray that God would open your eyes and show you himself. Are you willing to do this>? Or does this idea stir you up even more? Are you really able to be proven wrong? Are you even open to that idea in the same way you are open to other cultures and ideas. Do you have the courage to pray? Or is the truth that you are not so open.. That you have denied truth your entire life and your non belief system is simple justification for being a self serving person. You say being proven wrong is " always fun" Are we having fun yet? Is this not great? You say
" No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future".
And how so? Call this prophesy or whatever you will but the simple fact is this.... You are going to suffer in this life no matter what! There are times ahead of you where your suffering will be great and you will have no where to turn except yourself. Will you cry out to God in the midst of this suffering? My prayer is that you will.. and hopefully very soon.
You say
"Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people"
Let me say this.. If you belief in people you will be let down alot in your lifetime. People are the most unreliable source for belief. I quiver to think at the distress you will face throughout your lifetime with full belief in people. In conclusion i realize that you do have belief in God. You can feel it right now after reading this article. You can feel those feelings inside you and the doubt that has now been place inside your mind. You are even thinking about praying and doing the things that I challenged you to do. But it is my guess you wont pray.. The reason being.... FEAR You are afraid that if you do pray God will show you the truth and you will have to own up to the idea that you have been wrong for all these years. Please I ask you not to be afraid.. But to simply come to God with all of your feelings and questions. Trust me when I say you will not be dissapointed. As always this artivcle is sent to you with Love. God is everything you will need.
SERVANTS OF JESUS CHRIST
KEVIN AND AARON
Dave8
· 4 years ago
K&A: "And how so? Call this prophesy or whatever you will but the simple fact is this.... You are going to suffer in this life no matter what!"
Right, so why not just throw a lie out there to give people hope, for the afterlife, so their suffering in this reality is just a little more bearable... or is it... People who are not in touch with this physical reality, will in fact suffer and be more vulnerable than those who keep a keen observation of this physical reality...
K&A: "There are times ahead of you where your suffering will be great and you will have no where to turn except yourself."
Perhaps you are now the prophet...
K&A: "Will you cry out to God in the midst of this suffering? My prayer is that you will.. and hopefully very soon."
Crying out to a metaphysical force that doesn't exist in this reality, and has no direct interactive value as far as "anyone" has observed is useless... However, emotional release is indeed a healthy act, in our lives, but, no one needs a supernatural god as the vessel for release, just an environment one feels personally comfortable...
K&A: "Let me say this.. If you belief in people you will be let down alot in your lifetime."
Great, then your words have just become useless, makes sense to me...
K&A: "People are the most unreliable source for belief."
However, you learned of your religion from a "person", who is the most unreliable source, or you base your beliefs on ancient writings from other "people", seems your entire belief system is founded on "unreliable sources"...
K&A: "I quiver to think at the distress you will face throughout your lifetime with full belief in people."
Using "fear" as a tool to persuade isn't the most psychologically beneficial method to bring someone to a point of physiological homeostasis, but, that's not the goal of religion or religious followers is it... the goal appears to say whatever is necessary to sell the party line, without any evidence... and therefore, fear becomes more attractive... and inevitably, "death" and the benefits associated with "death" outweigh the benefits of living a faulty, sinful, defective life...
Religion, is a death cult... already predisposed to stating "suffering" will continue throughout life, and therefore, "Value" death as a means to an end, with Jesus leading the way... Martyrs... seems to be a lot of those running around these days... Warriors for Christ... Warriors for Islam... etc., etc... Religion, is a business... it "creates" a need, and "holds" the only solution to the "creative" need... its been an enterprise since the early pre-socratic philosophers...
Anonymous
· 4 years ago
I am an atheist, and i think these stupid debates about whether god exists or not is retarded, what does it matter what this or that person thinks, It isnt going to effect what will happen when u die, so far all u christians, this is an ex christian website so quit yer frckin whinign u shouldnt even be here. Also yer scriptures they r real, but they written by man. and as k&a said man is not relieable. so burn, u stupid mother fukers. Ya i had no real topic to speak upon, so im just gonna knock kenny and spenny over there and leave
cdmon
· 4 years ago
Dave8, You Rock!!!
KA: "First off God is Love, Love is God God is truth."
How is gawd love if he could kill woman, children and infants on a whim? Sounds more like a psychotic human with anger management issues. Your gawd is a worse sinner than me, at least I never killed anyone.
"God is truth?"
2Th 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie"
KA:"These are not my words but words of the Holy Scriptures."
Man's words. Even if they were inspired they were still filtered through a fallible human mind.
Unless you can provide any documentation that states empirically that gawd or jeezus actually wrote this mess of contradiction you so lovingly hide behind, please don't bother us with such drivel.
Show me his signature. I'd be willing to wager you don't even know who really wrote the buy bull do you?
In fact, why not have your gawd make a personal appearance?
KA: "I find your statements very contradicting and hypocritical."
As well I do yours.
KA: "What Moral code do you follow? The Bible?"
Emphatically NO!! To the contrary, I find the buy bull is immoral to say the least. It contains stories that rival XXX pornography. i.e.
Eze 23:20 For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh [is as] the flesh of asses, and whose issue [is like] the issue of horses.
Geez, you want your kids to read that smut?
KA: "God's law is the Moral code for humans to follow" (??)
Mal 2:3 Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces...
Are these really true examples of morality or family values?
KA: "Your disbelief shows me that deep down you have a belief, you have some kind of Moral code pre programed into you.... You proved that. So where did this Moral code come from? How do you know what is right or wrong? Its God that convicts you of your wrongdoings."
How absolutely ludicrous this entire statement is. It is one's own conscience tells them right from wrong.
Xians do NOT have a corner on the market of morality. There are many non-xian people who live a far better moral existance than xians who do not even associate their morality to any brand of religion.
Need proof? Read some of the articles on this site. There are numerous instances of so-called xian leaders raping, sodomizing, stealing and generally living immoral deviant lives while at the same time teaching xianity to their flocks.
So this begs the question, If your gawd really changes peoples lives for the better, then why are all these xian leaders committing such immoral acts?
These are not just isolated incidents. These are happening all the time with people who call themselves servants of Jeezus just like you. Please explain...
If Jeezus really doesn't change peoples lives (other than making people act self-righteous) what's the use? If people still screw up after they have jeezus then his alleged mission here was a complete and utter failure, wouldn't you agree?
KA: "God is love therefore without God you dont have "true love" You might experience high emotions and feelings... But feelings are not facts."
How do you know there is really a gawd? Do you feel him? Or do you accept him by blind faith?
Your attempts at trying to psychoanalyze people here are wasted. You missed the entire point of this website.
We used to be xians. Until we found out for ourselves that the buybull is NOT the word of gawd. That what we had been taught was so many lies.
We've already been where you are now. The difference is that we no longer buy into the lies we've been told by the clergy in order to control us and keep us in fear of burning in your mythical hell.
This website is here to encourage those who have found there way out of xianity and need to share their feelings and understanding with others who have left xianity.
So with that in mind, perhaps you should understand that your attempts at evangelizing people here are a waste of time and effort.
cheers
Dave8
· 4 years ago
cdmon, good to hear from ya', great post... I hope K&A show back up, I mean, I am starting to feel warmer by the second ;-) Must be my dreadful suffering, and obvious slippage toward the pit of eternal despair... :-) take care...
Anonymous
· 4 years ago
Thank you. I really enjoyed reading this and couldn't agree more. I'm truly glad to see I'm not the only one thinking like this.
-Lucas
cdmon
· 4 years ago
Dave8, I love reading your posts, I have learned a great deal from them.
Regarding suffering: Penn and Teller's show "Bullshit" did an episode on religion some months back.
One thing I found interesting was on a segment they quoted Mother Theresa as saying that "suffering brings you closer to jeezus..."
This referring to the scant provisions she made for the sick and dying she was allegedly caring for in India.
cheers
Dave8
· 4 years ago
Hey cdmon, "One thing I found interesting was on a segment they quoted Mother Theresa as saying that "suffering brings you closer to jeezus..." :-)
Yep, the religious theory of life... Suffering gets you close, but Death brings you home...
Beating the kids, brings them to the lawd... UnNatural abstination from sex causes the Self-abused to potentially molest children for their release, and of course, the children are closer due to their suffering... And... if a parent is a True believer, in the suffering paradigm...
Here's the golden globe winners, who have truly shown their convictions...
By Lisa Falkenberg, Associated Press:
"Andrea Yates said Satan told her to drown her five children.
Deanna Laney said the Lord sent her signs to beat her three sons with stones.
And the night before Dena Schlosser became the latest Texas mother to take her child's life, she told her husband she wanted to give her children to God. The suburban Dallas mother was charged with capital murder for severing her 10-month-old baby's arms."
"And, in some fundamentalist environments, symptoms of mental illness can appear normal: Obsession over a religious leader can be interpreted as religious fervor, and delusions can be interpreted as religious visions." http://www.uchc.edu/ocomm/features/stories/stories04/feature_religiosity.html
I suspect that child abuse is much greater than reported when the child is associated with those with strong religious backgrounds... a child coming out ruins a childhood, and they become the target of further ridicule by other children and even their friends in church, and of course the family retaliates most times against the child, as the child is seen as the one betraying their family...
Ah, the benefits of death, and suffering... the sad thing psychologically... is that the abused children are typically taught that they are naturally defective, and therefore, they subconsciously accept their abuse, as... deserved... and instead of looking for answers in this physical reality... they seek god, through prayer... and... some just don't get the answer they so desperately needed, before they have their face pushed under water, by a loving mother, or have their arms cut off...
Glory, through pain, suffering, and death... I don't know much about Mother Theresa but, seems she was an advocate of poverty bringing people to Jesus... and, how true, typically the ones who are poor, are the ones less educated, and are the same ones most exploited and abused in society... sadly many times, by the ones who consciously make an effort to keep people impoverished, and uneducated...
I like reading your posts also, they are witty and to the point ;-) Its great to see down to earth thinking... Have a great one... Dave
cdmon
· 4 years ago
mihyiKA: "There are times ahead of you where your suffering will be great and you will have no where to turn except yourself. Will you cry out to God in the midst of this suffering? My prayer is that you will.. and hopefully very soon."
Yeah, it appears that they are praying for Penn to suffer. So very typical, yes?
Aside from teaching the virtues of suffering they try to convince people that there is something lacking in their lives.
I'm sure there is not too much lacking in Penn's life. He is confident enough that he does not have any personal doubts.
As for suffering, morphine does wonders.
Dave8: "I like reading your posts also, they are witty and to the point ;-) Its great to see down to earth thinking..."
Aw shucks! I take that as a high compliment coming from the master, my hats off to you.
cheers
Anonymous
· 4 years ago
“Can I prove you wrong? I think I can prove you wrong. Is that idea possible? Or does it stir up feelings of anger and possible torment inside you. Are you really able to be proven wrong? Are you learning something? I think today you are learning something. If you really want to be proven wrong I challenge you to do one thing... Pray I want you to pray that God would prove you wrong I want you to pray that God would open your eyes and show you himself.”
“You are even thinking about praying and doing the things that I challenged you to do. But it is my guess you wont pray.. The reason being.... FEAR You are afraid that if you do pray God will show you the truth and you will have to own up to the idea that you have been wrong for all these years.”
- K&A
You know what really pisses me off? These retarded people that make up this bull that there are no true atheists and atheists really know there is a God but they are afraid of him somehow.
You know what Kevin and Aaron? You don't like atheism. You don't even respect it dammit. But, for the love of your "G-zeez" you can at least accept it.
You say we really know who God is, but we are either afraid or evil and hate him. It depends on which christain you ask. Anyway, can you read minds now? Did "Gawd" give bless you with this magical power?
Oh and the part that we don’t want to accept god? That’s crap. If a magical invisible being who loved you and granted your every whim existed, sure I would love him and accept him and pray to him.
But the fact is, God is bullshit.
God is a lie, and I'm not about to reduce myself to rubbish like you, begging on my hands and knees to nobody for something that doesn't exist.
Dano
· 4 years ago
Four thousand years ago God created us in the image of a chimpanzee. (About 98&1/2%), like them.) He made us a little smarter, and a little less hairy, and a lot more horny, and told us to be fruitful and multiply. Well, we did, to such an extent that he had to kill a few million of us every now and then so the rest would have enough to eat.
About two thousand years ago he realized that we were so flawed that he needed to come up with a new plan, so he decided to mate with one of his female creations, produce a male offspring, say that the baby was really him, and then arrange to have the boy sacrificed to himself, to appease himself for our breaking rules that he made himself.
All we have to do to is to become born again. (To be born again, you have to get a big stupid grin on your face and go around telling everybody that you have a relationship with Jesus) If you do that God will be pleased with you, and it won't matter how many immoral things that you do. He will accept you into heaven with your vestige of a tail and all.
That has only partially worked because he hasn't been able to convince about two-thirds of us to believe this ridiculous concept, for one reason or another. A few billion of us never heard the story, and the rest of us can't learn to abandon rational thought long enough, and so are doomed to never being able to grasp the concept.
I hear through the grapevine (Those who speak with God) that he has decided to cut his losses and keep a few thousand of us (people who have learned to suspend rational thought), and chuck the rest of us into a big fiery landfill.
.:webmaster:.
· 4 years ago
Dano, that was awesome.
And funny.
the Great Me
· 4 years ago
First, let me say i am an ex-christian. That said, I am still a theist. The fact that the universe exists rather than nothing existing is one of the most powerful arguments for me personally that there is a God.
Think about this, we are sentient beings with a world to play in and exercise our free will, engage our emotions, and create things. Does this sound like something that would arise from nothing? no God? Far from a proof, but to me, that implies a God directing things.
If there really are supernatural things in the universe, the atheist is at a disadvantage in trying to explain the world.
I think you should also be aware of the fact that whatever your world view is, it is going to color how you read the data/facts presented to you.
Dave8
· 4 years ago
TGM: "First, let me say i am an ex-christian. That said, I am still a theist. The fact that the universe exists rather than nothing existing is one of the most powerful arguments for me personally that there is a God."
Hmmmmm, the Universe is Nature... So far, no proof of a SuperNatural being...
TGM: "Think about this, we are sentient beings with a world to play in and exercise our free will, engage our emotions, and create things."
And so do, bullfrogs...
TGM: "Does this sound like something that would arise from nothing?"
Well, who said there was "Nothing"... There are those who believe there has "ALWAYS" been something... Nature for instance...
TGM: "no God?"
One who sees the Universe with Awe, may believe the Universe itself is the Greater Entity...
TGM: "Far from a proof, but to me, that implies a God directing things."
Right, to extend your belief beyond this Naturally occurring Universe, which in itself could be considered the Greater Entity, you feel compelled to believe without "knowledge" that something beyond the Natural exists...
TGM: "If there really are supernatural things in the universe, the atheist is at a disadvantage in trying to explain the world."
That made as much sense as launching a lead balloon... "If"?... How about, there is no "evidence" of "anything" supernatural... and therefore, an Atheist may only see this world from a "Natural" perspective... without the "lies" and "promises" given by religion, which has "zero" evidence for their claims... Well, except what someone tells the next person... who had no evidence either...
TGM: "I think you should also be aware of the fact that whatever your world view is, it is going to color how you read the data/facts presented to you."
Perception is reality, and yes, you obviously have a skewed and biased view of reality... I am almost certain, that you extend your beliefs beyond this Natural world, and Universe, because you feel a "need" is being met... Not because you have Evidence, of SuperNatural beings, etc... Its your right to have a personal belief, I mean, obviously you have persuaded yourself to see more than this Universe has to offer, others enjoy this Universe and believe they are part of the Universal Wholeness...
Dano
· 4 years ago
webmaster, Thanks Dave. I hope the Jesus freaks got the: "He will accept you into heaven with your vestige of a tail and all." It always makes me smile to imagine some of the "evolutionary throwbacks" up there playing a harp.
Dave8
· 4 years ago
Hey Dano, our vestige tails will probably be explained as our Sinful heirloom, given us by the Devil and his pointed tail for Adam and Eve's booboo, to remind us of our woeful past :-) Canine teeth will surely follow, as Vampire's are evil, and we have fangs... ;-) Take care...
Scotty
· 4 years ago
These are the same tactics used by car salesman, real estate brokers, and time share reps. All of those empty phrases and superfiscial ssayings as "proof". Good show, Penn and cdmon
cdmon
· 4 years ago
Thanx for the kind words Scotty. I like your comparison to a used car salesman... bravo...
Of the various methodologies utilized by apologists to "explain" the manifold discrepancies found in the bible: (copouts)
(1) "That is to be taken metaphorically or figuratively" In other words, what is written is not what is meant. I find this entertaining, especially for those who decide what isn't to be taken as other than the absolute "word of gawd" - which just happens to agree with the particular thing they happen to want.... Or how it does or doesn't apply to them, in that certain instance.
(2) "There was more there than...." This is used when one verse says, "There was A" and the other verse says there was "B," so they decide there was "A" and "B" - which is said nowhere. This logic makes them happy, since it doesn't say there wasn't "A+B." But if it doesn't say there was "A+B+ little green Martians." This is often the same crowd that insists theirs is the ONLY possible interpretation (i.e. only "A") and the only way. I find it entertaining that they don't mind adding to the verses.
(3) "It has to be understood in context" I find this amusing because it comes from the same crowd that likes to push likewise extracted verses that support their particular view. Often it is just one of the verses in the contradictory set is supposed to be taken as "the truth," when if you add more to clarify it or don't quote the rest of the verse, which is usually irrelevant to the point you're trying getting across, it suddenly becomes "out of context."
(4) "There was just a copying/writing error." This is sometimes called a "transcription error," as in where one word or number was meant and an incorrect one was copied down. Or that what was "quoted" wasn't really what is said, but just what the author thought was said when he thought it was said. And that's right - I'm not disagreeing with events, I'm disagreeing with what is "written." This is the only rational apology out of the whole mess, and closer to the truth than any others. Which is apparently agreed that it is incorrect. This is an amusing misdirection to the problem that the buy bull is wrong to begin with. If the buy bull contains an error of any kind, the buy bull is errant, and should be considered so.
(5) "That is a miracle." Naturally, gawd can do anything... That is why it is stated as a fact. No matter how illogical, that is their rationale for "proving" their point, in the face of the fact that a more simple, logical explanation could easily clarify the whole misunderstanding.
(6) "Gawd works in mysterious ways," A useful dodge when the speaker doesn't understand the conflict between what the bible says and what they wish it said. It also works as a catchall excuse for discrepancies.
(7) And last but definitely not least, the old "You have to have the holey spook to understand the bible." Another cop out. When people challenge xian interpretations of the bible, their first counter-attack is this claim. Be prepared to hear it. The moment you defend yourself against their beliefs, xians will claim you can't understand the bible correctly unless God, through the holey spook, directs your understanding. Basically they are claiming that gawd has revealed his truths to them but not to you. They are claiming that gawd has given them a better understanding of the bible than you. However, in Psalms 119:130 we read that the bible, which they call the "Word of gawd," is understandable even to the "simple." This is the most ludicrous of the apologetics. First if the bible were wrong to begin with, it would be delusional to think that the holey spook could help it all make sense in our minds. This is another twist of bigotry, which has given xians a reason to believe that they possess gawd's spirit and other people don't. This puts them in special statuses that according to them, non-xians are not privy to. (Bigotry)
cheers
the Great Me
· 4 years ago
Well, as all atheists, Dave8, you are a reductionist. Who are you to say the building blocks are more to point of the world than the world itself? It is naive to declare it so and is also a Faith for that matter.
Equating humans to bullfrogs - reductionist.
I say that you must believe the universe had a beginning or you run into a paradox. Hence, the universe isn't all there is. And if you argue this point till you are blue in the face, all you have done is push the theist into a pantheist corner of sorts.
"Extending my belief beyond the 'natural' universe'" - it's called INFERENCE which is not outside of LOGIC. "Proof" and "evidence" are the calling cards of scientific investigation which is woefully inadequate to describe all parts of even the natural universe. You can't scientifically prove that your parents love you, you can only reason using logic that they do.
Let me ask you this Dave8, do you think you would know a supernatural event if you saw one?
freeman
· 4 years ago
the great to me said
"You can't scientifically prove that your parents love you, you can only reason using logic that they do."
Absolutely true! However, there is no reason or logic in christianity or jesus as truth. The very existence of a single person as described in the bible 2000 years ago cannot be proven. There is extremely compelling evidence that Paul made up the entire story from Roman/Greek, Egyptian and Jewish mythology to create this new religion. Possible this is why the early christian had pictures of Appolo, painted in their tombs, rising from the dead on the third day from a cave and acending into heaven.
I will not argue the existence of some diety, because it is pointless to try and prove a negative. Impossible to prove your god. I'll take leave and let my friend Dave8 defend himself better than I wish I could.
GOD SENT
· 4 years ago
Wow my post got quite the response for all of you. It seems as if something inside of you is stirred. Instead of tear each of your post apart and argue with you I have decided to post this instead. I find it funny that most of you will still not pray...But your all so open minded right? Like I said before if you really want to know that God is real.... Pray and ask him to reveal that to you. Ohhh but wait... There goes that self serving pride of yours that speaks and says... NO I AM RIGHT THERE IS NO GOD PERIOD.... Your fear ranks! I can smell your fear! I can see in your words that stirred tension, That only shows me that when the truth of Jesus Christ is spoken you get offended and upset. Wow I wonder why? Its so amazing that you are blind but yet... you try and lead others your way. It's like a blind man running into a brick wall saying hahaha here follow me.. SLAM right back into the same wall. You know something... I will give you credit in a few areas...
1. It is much easier to deny God's laws then to look at yourself with honesty! Who wants to be honest and find out they are guilty of sin? Yeah your right just deny God no problem. YEAH THATS THE ANSWER! Try this... How about being able to say "yeah you know I am guilty of some of that stuff" "I did break those laws" NO YOU CANT DO THAT RIGHT? THAT WOULD REQUIRE THAT YOU MAKE CHANGES TO YOUR LIFE? OHHHH NO CHANGE? NOPE CANT DO THAT CAN WE?
2. I find that it must take great faith not to believe in God. Here is why... When we all die If I am wrong o well... nothing happens... But if you are wrong.. YOU WILL STAND INFRONT OF GOD FOR JUDGEMENT what in the world do you say to him? ummmm... ummmm.... as you stand in the GLORY OF THE MOST HIGH and shake with fear. ummm I I I I you stutter repeatedly.. NO RESPONSE! SILENCE!! SHHHHHHHh
3. YOU LIKE TO ARGUE Hey i will be honest even Christians do that :)
4. IS THERE ACTUALLY 4? nah
Anyways this will be my last post to your site. I refuse to stand here and argue. Truth needs no defense so why should I stay here and argue with you? I will allow all of you to post a long long list of responses to this with your simple thoughts about how wrong I am... Whatever GO FOR IT! You watch... THE LIST OF POST WILL GO ON AND ON! I find that hillarious! I know that most of you find me very sarcastic and to be...well... a jerk. I would also feel that way in your position.. I would also be so used to blaming other people for things and focusing on everyone else instead of myself:) You people Love everything and cant get along with anyone. That one will set in later. ouch I guess you could call this a form of tough love... Sometimes the truth is painful, sometimes the truth of Jesus can even bring people to anger. That is why your upset right? Ohh and by the way.. For those of you who used scripture in your post..... PLEASE PLEASE DO ME A FAVOR please answer this... HOW DO YOU HAVE THE NERVE TO POST SCRIPTURE WHEN YOU CANT EVEN FIND THE SELF RESPECT OR THE COURAGE TO FOLLOW IT? THATS RIGHT I SAID IT...IF YOU DONT HAVE THE COURAGE TO LIVE UP TO THE MORAL CODE OF THE BIBLE THEN PLEASE DO US ALL A FAVOR AND DONT DARE POST SCRIPTURE. I find it funny again that some of you posted up scripture in a attempt to twist it to your own use. SO BASICALLY YOU USED GOD'S OWN BOOK TO TRY AND PROVE THAT HE DOES NOT EXIST? That is like cleaning your rear with toliet paper and taking a large crap then putting your pants back on... ITS NOT LOGICAL!! Although I must say that some of you might do that.... because I SMELL YOUR CRAP!! LOL! I know that many of you are now on a mission to tear down the words I have spoken to you... but like I said this will be the last time I visit your little "web site" MANY OF YOU EXCLAIM YEAH YEAH!! HE IS GONE HE IS LEAVING!! Many of you are happy I will not be back! The TRUE reason why will also hit you later in your thoughts. I know The truth is sometimes harsh people.... It's ok. Let me ask you something in closing this is something you can ponder....You dont belive in GOD? or the BIBLE? But yet the Bible has predicted many events throughout history. ISRAEL BECOMING A NATION? FAMINES one thrid of the world remains starving EARTHQUAKES, NATION AGAINST NATION, MANY WILL COME IN CHRIST NAME CLAIMING TO BE THE MESSIAH, There are more wars going on right now then ever before in history:( HURRICANES, WEATHER CHANGES, Wow for a book that you say is "Bull" It sure has told of alot that is coming true. Wow you cant really argue with that can you? How could a book that is so full of crap predict these events? Wow maybe this old book is God's Word and plan of salvation? Maybe you should take another look and keep a open heart and mind this time. And just think... With all this prophecy coming true... Just wait untill CHRIST COMES BACK AND EVERYONE OF YOU SHALL BOW AND EVERY TONGUE WILL EXCLAIM THAT CHRIST IS LORD>>> EVEN YOUR TONGUES WILL BE FORCED TO PROCLAIM THAT! EVEN satan HAS ESTABLISHED HIS CHURCH ON EARTH! satan even has a bible now did you know that? It's crazy to think that the one leading your non belief actually belives in GOD! This will also sink deep down inside you in further thought. Ohhh by the way... satan's bible has one law....
"Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law"
So when you deny God's laws to fullfill your selfish desires like everyone of you does. Your actually following satan. Is that good to know? I hope you dont take pride in that. So now you can also consider your non belief as satanic. Not only do you have to prove God wrong you now have to prove satan wrong as well. WOW lets think about that for a minute. It seems as if you few are under a "spell" satan's teachings claim your wrong... and God's teachings say your wrong to. How does it feel to be a REJECT?
Thank you for your time
Kevin "TRUTH HURTS"
Dano
· 4 years ago
Well, there goes another youngster for Jesus running away with his fingers in his ears screaming "I DON'T HEAR YOU!"
Jim Arvo
· 4 years ago
Wow, Kevin (aka "GOD SENT"), that was quite a tirade. Well done. You must have used up a whole box of crayons drafting that.
You said "...if you really want to know that God is real.... Pray and ask him to reveal that to you."
Okay, cool. Tell me exactly what words I should say, and I'll give it a try. I'll also report back to you about what, if anything, happens. Do we have a deal?
To make this more interesting, would you also be willing to pray to both Allah and Krishna and ask them to reveal themselves to you? I suggest kneeling, at least for Allah (I understand he appreciates that). You probably ought to touch your forehead to the floor while shouting "Praise Allah" a few times, then ask him to forgive your sins (such as touting the Christian blasphemy), and then finally request that he reveal himself, or at least give you an unmistakable sign. I'm not sure what the correct protocol would be for Krishna. There are probably some Muslims and Hindu's out there who would be delighted to help with the respective rituals; you would not wish to inadvertently offend either one of these deities, I presume.
So, how about it?
Jeff
· 4 years ago
Oh Kevin the great guru of god!!! Which sins are you talking about? The ones we are born into? So according to you being born is a sin. Kevin is the supreme example of the mind cult, he comes in here spreading his religious manure that he has been indoctrinated by another infectious bible repeating robot, talk about the stench of self-righteousness, you really do smell Kevin, you smell like a liar, even your silly godspill rhetoric stinks. Yes do go away spreading your silly childhood psychotic bible repeat phrases, you are exactly what makes religion and your imaginary god so putrid.
Jeffrey
· 4 years ago
What Is God?
God is man’s mental concept that he chose to invent so as to give someone something to believe in for a universal answer. The word God is the three letter answer for everything unknown to man. When anything that is unknown to man is questioned, the question is answered by the three letter answer God, by default, thereby the question is answered and it is no longer has to be debated in one’s own mind. Now one must not question any further, questioning any further would be setting one up to question the existence of this imaginary God. We must not ever question the existence of this imaginary God, because you will suffer unending consequences. This God already knows what your motives are and will therefore punish you according to your ulterior motives. In other words you must not ever question the existence of this God, otherwise you will advise this God of your intent to question his existence and he will judge you and punish you according to your works and deeds. So in the end, God is solely the invention and creation of a man, but one must not ever question the existence of this imaginary being, to do so would cause a multitude of different beliefs and religions to spring up all over the world, and certainly no God would ever want that to happen.
Anonymous
· 2 years ago
Letting go of the belief in god was the best thing i could have done for myself. It was difficult, but it was worth it. Coming from an abused childhood, i carried alot of anger "for god" because of these things. I never understood why god hates some kids and loves others. I was very angry at god, and spent most of my adult years struggling with this anger. Thinking that if I just trusted god the way your supposed to, maybe he will love me to. And when that didn't happen, more anger. When I finally decided that I had to let go of my belief in god to free myself from all the anger I carried around, I finally found peace within myself.
All Comments
True, except that the rib came from man, and man came from dirt...
So females, not direct decendents of dirt, but still decendents of dirt by way of man's rib.
And as Wayne Algar would say... "And monkeys might fly out of ass!"
I suppose they'd rather come from dirt than monkeys.
cheers
I was reading your article and I really felt lead to post a comment for you. It seems to me that the simple fact is you spend your days in constant observation, trying to prove to yourself and others that there "is no God".
These are your words
"So, anyone with a love for truth outside of herself has to start with no belief in God and then look for evidence of God. She needs to search for some objective evidence of a supernatural power"
First off God is Love, Love is God God is truth. These are not my words but words of the Holy Scriptures. I find your statements very contradicting and hypocritical. I find it funny that you claim to be a better person because you dont believe in God. You say "I am not Greedy" My question to you is this... What is greedy? And how do you know that your not greedy? What Moral code do you follow? The Bible? What moral code do you know that would make you either "greedy" or not? If you dont belive in God, do you have a moral system? Did you make one up? God's law is the Moral code for humans to follow, so therefore if you deny God's law how can you say your not greedy? You have no moral code correct? Or deep down do you really believe that the Bible could possibly be the Moral code for Human beings? Your disbelief shows me that deep down you have a belief, you have some kind of Moral code pre programed into you.... You proved that. So where did this Moral code come from? How do you know what is right or wrong? Its God that convicts you of your wrongdoings.
You say "I have Love" My question to you is this... Is love a good thing? And if you say yes... How do you know its a good thing? Is it something that is just pre programed into your existence? God is love therefore without God you dont have "true love" You might experience high emotions and feelings... But feelings are not facts. You say "I have blue skies"
Do you really? Where? Are they in your home? On your own personal sky canvas? What? You have blue skies? What a selfish statement to consider the fact that YOU HAVE BLUE SKIES.... Does everyone else live in complete darknesss? With no sky? How selfish dear... And the same goes for rainbows.. You say
." So, believing there is no God lets me be proven wrong and that's always fun. It means I'm learning something.
So are you proven wrong alot? It seemed to me that you are someone that is always right. Can I prove you wrong? I think I can prove you wrong. Is that idea possible? Or does it stir up feelings of anger and possible torment inside you. Are you really able to be proven wrong? Are you learning something? I think today you are learning something. If you really want to be proven wrong i challenge you to do one thing... Pray I want you to pray that God would prove you wrong I want you to pray that God would open your eyes and show you himself. Are you willing to do this>? Or does this idea stir you up even more? Are you really able to be proven wrong? Are you even open to that idea in the same way you are open to other cultures and ideas. Do you have the courage to pray? Or is the truth that you are not so open.. That you have denied truth your entire life and your non belief system is simple justification for being a self serving person. You say being proven wrong is " always fun"
Are we having fun yet? Is this not great? You say
" No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future".
And how so? Call this prophesy or whatever you will but the simple fact is this.... You are going to suffer in this life no matter what! There are times ahead of you where your suffering will be great and you will have no where to turn except yourself. Will you cry out to God in the midst of this suffering? My prayer is that you will.. and hopefully very soon.
You say
"Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people"
Let me say this.. If you belief in people you will be let down alot in your lifetime. People are the most unreliable source for belief. I quiver to think at the distress you will face throughout your lifetime with full belief in people. In conclusion i realize that you do have belief in God. You can feel it right now after reading this article. You can feel those feelings inside you and the doubt that has now been place inside your mind. You are even thinking about praying and doing the things that I challenged you to do. But it is my guess you wont pray.. The reason being.... FEAR You are afraid that if you do pray God will show you the truth and you will have to own up to the idea that you have been wrong for all these years. Please I ask you not to be afraid.. But to simply come to God with all of your feelings and questions. Trust me when I say you will not be dissapointed. As always this artivcle is sent to you with Love. God is everything you will need.
SERVANTS OF JESUS CHRIST
KEVIN AND AARON
Right, so why not just throw a lie out there to give people hope, for the afterlife, so their suffering in this reality is just a little more bearable... or is it... People who are not in touch with this physical reality, will in fact suffer and be more vulnerable than those who keep a keen observation of this physical reality...
K&A: "There are times ahead of you where your suffering will be great and you will have no where to turn except yourself."
Perhaps you are now the prophet...
K&A: "Will you cry out to God in the midst of this suffering? My prayer is that you will.. and hopefully very soon."
Crying out to a metaphysical force that doesn't exist in this reality, and has no direct interactive value as far as "anyone" has observed is useless... However, emotional release is indeed a healthy act, in our lives, but, no one needs a supernatural god as the vessel for release, just an environment one feels personally comfortable...
K&A: "Let me say this.. If you belief in people you will be let down alot in your lifetime."
Great, then your words have just become useless, makes sense to me...
K&A: "People are the most unreliable source for belief."
However, you learned of your religion from a "person", who is the most unreliable source, or you base your beliefs on ancient writings from other "people", seems your entire belief system is founded on "unreliable sources"...
K&A: "I quiver to think at the distress you will face throughout your lifetime with full belief in people."
Using "fear" as a tool to persuade isn't the most psychologically beneficial method to bring someone to a point of physiological homeostasis, but, that's not the goal of religion or religious followers is it... the goal appears to say whatever is necessary to sell the party line, without any evidence... and therefore, fear becomes more attractive... and inevitably, "death" and the benefits associated with "death" outweigh the benefits of living a faulty, sinful, defective life...
Religion, is a death cult... already predisposed to stating "suffering" will continue throughout life, and therefore, "Value" death as a means to an end, with Jesus leading the way... Martyrs... seems to be a lot of those running around these days... Warriors for Christ... Warriors for Islam... etc., etc... Religion, is a business... it "creates" a need, and "holds" the only solution to the "creative" need... its been an enterprise since the early pre-socratic philosophers...
KA: "First off God is Love, Love is God God is truth."
How is gawd love if he could kill woman, children and infants on a whim? Sounds more like a psychotic human with anger management issues.
Your gawd is a worse sinner than me, at least I never killed anyone.
"God is truth?"
2Th 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie"
KA:"These are not my words but words of the Holy Scriptures."
Man's words. Even if they were inspired they were still filtered through a fallible human mind.
Unless you can provide any documentation that states empirically that gawd or jeezus actually wrote this mess of contradiction you so lovingly hide behind, please don't bother us with such drivel.
Show me his signature. I'd be willing to wager you don't even know who really wrote the buy bull do you?
In fact, why not have your gawd make a personal appearance?
KA: "I find your statements very contradicting and hypocritical."
As well I do yours.
KA: "What Moral code do you follow? The Bible?"
Emphatically NO!! To the contrary, I find the buy bull is immoral to say the least. It contains stories that rival XXX pornography. i.e.
Eze 23:20 For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh [is as] the flesh of asses, and whose issue [is like] the issue of horses.
Geez, you want your kids to read that smut?
KA: "God's law is the Moral code for humans to follow" (??)
Mal 2:3 Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces...
Are these really true examples of morality or family values?
KA: "Your disbelief shows me that deep down you have a belief, you have some kind of Moral code pre programed into you.... You proved that. So where did this Moral code come from? How do you know what is right or wrong? Its God that convicts you of your wrongdoings."
How absolutely ludicrous this entire statement is. It is one's own conscience tells them right from wrong.
Xians do NOT have a corner on the market of morality. There are many non-xian people who live a far better moral existance than xians who do not even associate their morality to any brand of religion.
Need proof? Read some of the articles on this site. There are numerous instances of so-called xian leaders raping, sodomizing, stealing and generally living immoral deviant lives while at the same time teaching xianity to their flocks.
So this begs the question, If your gawd really changes peoples lives for the better, then why are all these xian leaders committing such immoral acts?
These are not just isolated incidents. These are happening all the time with people who call themselves servants of Jeezus just like you. Please explain...
If Jeezus really doesn't change peoples lives (other than making people act self-righteous) what's the use? If people still screw up after they have jeezus then his alleged mission here was a complete and utter failure, wouldn't you agree?
KA: "God is love therefore without God you dont have "true love" You might experience high emotions and feelings... But feelings are not facts."
How do you know there is really a gawd? Do you feel him? Or do you accept him by blind faith?
Your attempts at trying to psychoanalyze people here are wasted. You missed the entire point of this website.
We used to be xians. Until we found out for ourselves that the buybull is NOT the word of gawd. That what we had been taught was so many lies.
We've already been where you are now. The difference is that we no longer buy into the lies we've been told by the clergy in order to control us and keep us in fear of burning in your mythical hell.
This website is here to encourage those who have found there way out of xianity and need to share their feelings and understanding with others who have left xianity.
So with that in mind, perhaps you should understand that your attempts at evangelizing people here are a waste of time and effort.
cheers
-Lucas
Regarding suffering: Penn and Teller's show "Bullshit" did an episode on religion some months back.
One thing I found interesting was on a segment they quoted Mother Theresa as saying that "suffering brings you closer to jeezus..."
This referring to the scant provisions she made for the sick and dying she was allegedly caring for in India.
cheers
Yep, the religious theory of life... Suffering gets you close, but Death brings you home...
Beating the kids, brings them to the lawd... UnNatural abstination from sex causes the Self-abused to potentially molest children for their release, and of course, the children are closer due to their suffering... And... if a parent is a True believer, in the suffering paradigm...
Here's the golden globe winners, who have truly shown their convictions...
By Lisa Falkenberg, Associated Press:
"Andrea Yates said Satan told her to drown her five children.
Deanna Laney said the Lord sent her signs to beat her three sons with stones.
And the night before Dena Schlosser became the latest Texas mother to take her child's life, she told her husband she wanted to give her children to God. The suburban Dallas mother was charged with capital murder for severing her 10-month-old baby's arms."
"And, in some fundamentalist environments, symptoms of mental illness can appear normal: Obsession over a religious leader can be interpreted as religious fervor, and delusions can be interpreted as religious visions."
http://www.uchc.edu/ocomm/features/stories/stories04/feature_religiosity.html
I suspect that child abuse is much greater than reported when the child is associated with those with strong religious backgrounds... a child coming out ruins a childhood, and they become the target of further ridicule by other children and even their friends in church, and of course the family retaliates most times against the child, as the child is seen as the one betraying their family...
Ah, the benefits of death, and suffering... the sad thing psychologically... is that the abused children are typically taught that they are naturally defective, and therefore, they subconsciously accept their abuse, as... deserved... and instead of looking for answers in this physical reality... they seek god, through prayer... and... some just don't get the answer they so desperately needed, before they have their face pushed under water, by a loving mother, or have their arms cut off...
Glory, through pain, suffering, and death... I don't know much about Mother Theresa but, seems she was an advocate of poverty bringing people to Jesus... and, how true, typically the ones who are poor, are the ones less educated, and are the same ones most exploited and abused in society... sadly many times, by the ones who consciously make an effort to keep people impoverished, and uneducated...
I like reading your posts also, they are witty and to the point ;-) Its great to see down to earth thinking... Have a great one... Dave
Yeah, it appears that they are praying for Penn to suffer. So very typical, yes?
Aside from teaching the virtues of suffering they try to convince people that there is something lacking in their lives.
I'm sure there is not too much lacking in Penn's life. He is confident enough that he does not have any personal doubts.
As for suffering, morphine does wonders.
Dave8: "I like reading your posts also, they are witty and to the point ;-) Its great to see down to earth thinking..."
Aw shucks! I take that as a high compliment coming from the master, my hats off to you.
cheers
“You are even thinking about praying and doing the things that I challenged you to do. But it is my guess you wont pray.. The reason being.... FEAR You are afraid that if you do pray God will show you the truth and you will have to own up to the idea that you have been wrong for all these years.”
- K&A
You know what really pisses me off? These retarded people that make up this bull that there are no true atheists and atheists really know there is a God but they are afraid of him somehow.
You know what Kevin and Aaron? You don't like atheism. You don't even respect it dammit. But, for the love of your "G-zeez" you can at least accept it.
You say we really know who God is, but we are either afraid or evil and hate him. It depends on which christain you ask. Anyway, can you read minds now? Did "Gawd" give bless you with this magical power?
Oh and the part that we don’t want to accept god? That’s crap. If a magical invisible being who loved you and granted your every whim existed, sure I would love him and accept him and pray to him.
But the fact is, God is bullshit.
God is a lie, and I'm not about to reduce myself to rubbish like you, begging on my hands and knees to nobody for something that doesn't exist.
About two thousand years ago he realized that we were so flawed that he needed to come up with a new plan, so he decided to mate with one of his female creations, produce a male offspring, say that the baby was really him, and then arrange to have the boy sacrificed to himself, to appease himself for our breaking rules that he made himself.
All we have to do to is to become born again. (To be born again, you have to get a big stupid grin on your face and go around telling everybody that you have a relationship with Jesus) If you do that God will be pleased with you, and it won't matter how many immoral things that you do. He will accept you into heaven with your vestige of a tail and all.
That has only partially worked because he hasn't been able to convince about two-thirds of us to believe this ridiculous concept, for one reason or another. A few billion of us never heard the story, and the rest of us can't learn to abandon rational thought long enough, and so are doomed to never being able to grasp the concept.
I hear through the grapevine (Those who speak with God) that he has decided to cut his losses and keep a few thousand of us (people who have learned to suspend rational thought), and chuck the rest of us into a big fiery landfill.
And funny.
Think about this, we are sentient beings with a world to play in and exercise our free will, engage our emotions, and create things. Does this sound like something that would arise from nothing? no God? Far from a proof, but to me, that implies a God directing things.
If there really are supernatural things in the universe, the atheist is at a disadvantage in trying to explain the world.
I think you should also be aware of the fact that whatever your world view is, it is going to color how you read the data/facts presented to you.
Hmmmmm, the Universe is Nature... So far, no proof of a SuperNatural being...
TGM: "Think about this, we are sentient beings with a world to play in and exercise our free will, engage our emotions, and create things."
And so do, bullfrogs...
TGM: "Does this sound like something that would arise from nothing?"
Well, who said there was "Nothing"... There are those who believe there has "ALWAYS" been something... Nature for instance...
TGM: "no God?"
One who sees the Universe with Awe, may believe the Universe itself is the Greater Entity...
TGM: "Far from a proof, but to me, that implies a God directing things."
Right, to extend your belief beyond this Naturally occurring Universe, which in itself could be considered the Greater Entity, you feel compelled to believe without "knowledge" that something beyond the Natural exists...
TGM: "If there really are supernatural things in the universe, the atheist is at a disadvantage in trying to explain the world."
That made as much sense as launching a lead balloon... "If"?... How about, there is no "evidence" of "anything" supernatural... and therefore, an Atheist may only see this world from a "Natural" perspective... without the "lies" and "promises" given by religion, which has "zero" evidence for their claims... Well, except what someone tells the next person... who had no evidence either...
TGM: "I think you should also be aware of the fact that whatever your world view is, it is going to color how you read the data/facts presented to you."
Perception is reality, and yes, you obviously have a skewed and biased view of reality... I am almost certain, that you extend your beliefs beyond this Natural world, and Universe, because you feel a "need" is being met... Not because you have Evidence, of SuperNatural beings, etc... Its your right to have a personal belief, I mean, obviously you have persuaded yourself to see more than this Universe has to offer, others enjoy this Universe and believe they are part of the Universal Wholeness...
Thanks Dave. I hope the Jesus freaks got the: "He will accept you into heaven with your vestige of a tail and all."
It always makes me smile to imagine some of the "evolutionary throwbacks" up there playing a harp.
Of the various methodologies utilized by apologists to "explain" the manifold discrepancies found in the bible: (copouts)
(1) "That is to be taken metaphorically or figuratively" In other words, what is written is not what is meant. I find this entertaining, especially for those who decide what isn't to be taken as other than the absolute "word of gawd" - which just happens to agree with the particular thing they happen to want.... Or how it does or doesn't apply to them, in that certain instance.
(2) "There was more there than...." This is used when one verse says, "There was A" and the other verse says there was "B," so they decide there was "A" and "B" - which is said nowhere. This logic makes them happy, since it doesn't say there wasn't "A+B." But if it doesn't say there was "A+B+ little green Martians." This is often the same crowd that insists theirs is the ONLY possible interpretation (i.e. only "A") and the only way. I find it entertaining that they don't mind adding to the verses.
(3) "It has to be understood in context" I find this amusing because it comes from the same crowd that likes to push likewise extracted verses that support their particular view. Often it is just one of the verses in the contradictory set is supposed to be taken as "the truth," when if you add more to clarify it or don't quote the rest of the verse, which is usually irrelevant to the point you're trying getting across, it suddenly becomes "out of context."
(4) "There was just a copying/writing error." This is sometimes called a "transcription error," as in where one word or number was meant and an incorrect one was copied down. Or that what was "quoted" wasn't really what is said, but just what the author thought was said when he thought it was said. And that's right - I'm not disagreeing with events, I'm disagreeing with what is "written." This is the only rational apology out of the whole mess, and closer to the truth than any others. Which is apparently agreed that it is incorrect. This is an amusing misdirection to the problem that the buy bull is wrong to begin with. If the buy bull contains an error of any kind, the buy bull is errant, and should be considered so.
(5) "That is a miracle." Naturally, gawd can do anything... That is why it is stated as a fact. No matter how illogical, that is their rationale for "proving" their point, in the face of the fact that a more simple, logical explanation could easily clarify the whole misunderstanding.
(6) "Gawd works in mysterious ways," A useful dodge when the speaker doesn't understand the conflict between what the bible says and what they wish it said. It also works as a catchall excuse for discrepancies.
(7) And last but definitely not least, the old "You have to have the holey spook to understand the bible." Another cop out. When people challenge xian interpretations of the bible, their first counter-attack is this claim. Be prepared to hear it. The moment you defend yourself against their beliefs, xians will claim you can't understand the bible correctly unless God, through the holey spook, directs your understanding. Basically they are claiming that gawd has revealed his truths to them but not to you. They are claiming that gawd has given them a better understanding of the bible than you. However, in Psalms 119:130 we read that the bible, which they call the "Word of gawd," is understandable even to the "simple." This is the most ludicrous of the apologetics. First if the bible were wrong to begin with, it would be delusional to think that the holey spook could help it all make sense in our minds. This is another twist of bigotry, which has given xians a reason to believe that they possess gawd's spirit and other people don't. This puts them in special statuses that according to them, non-xians are not privy to. (Bigotry)
cheers
Equating humans to bullfrogs - reductionist.
I say that you must believe the universe had a beginning or you run into a paradox. Hence, the universe isn't all there is. And if you argue this point till you are blue in the face, all you have done is push the theist into a pantheist corner of sorts.
"Extending my belief beyond the 'natural' universe'" - it's called INFERENCE which is not outside of LOGIC. "Proof" and "evidence" are the calling cards of scientific investigation which is woefully inadequate to describe all parts of even the natural universe. You can't scientifically prove that your parents love you, you can only reason using logic that they do.
Let me ask you this Dave8, do you think you would know a supernatural event if you saw one?
"You can't scientifically prove that your parents love you, you can only reason using logic that they do."
Absolutely true! However, there is no reason or logic in christianity or jesus as truth. The very existence of a single person as described in the bible 2000 years ago cannot be proven. There is extremely compelling evidence that Paul made up the entire story from Roman/Greek, Egyptian and Jewish mythology to create this new religion. Possible this is why the early christian had pictures of Appolo, painted in their tombs, rising from the dead on the third day from a cave and acending into heaven.
I will not argue the existence of some diety, because it is pointless to try and prove a negative. Impossible to prove your god. I'll take leave and let my friend Dave8 defend himself better than I wish I could.
1. It is much easier to deny God's laws then to look at yourself with honesty! Who wants to be honest and find out they are guilty of sin? Yeah your right just deny God no problem. YEAH THATS THE ANSWER! Try this... How about being able to say "yeah you know I am guilty of some of that stuff" "I did break those laws" NO YOU CANT DO THAT RIGHT? THAT WOULD REQUIRE THAT YOU MAKE CHANGES TO YOUR LIFE? OHHHH NO CHANGE? NOPE CANT DO THAT CAN WE?
2. I find that it must take great faith not to believe in God. Here is why... When we all die If I am wrong o well... nothing happens...
But if you are wrong.. YOU WILL STAND INFRONT OF GOD FOR JUDGEMENT
what in the world do you say to him? ummmm... ummmm.... as you stand in the GLORY OF THE MOST HIGH and shake with fear. ummm I I I I you stutter repeatedly.. NO RESPONSE! SILENCE!! SHHHHHHHh
3. YOU LIKE TO ARGUE Hey i will be honest even Christians do that :)
4. IS THERE ACTUALLY 4? nah
Anyways this will be my last post to your site. I refuse to stand here and argue. Truth needs no defense so why should I stay here and argue with you? I will allow all of you to post a long long list of responses to this with your simple thoughts about how wrong I am... Whatever GO FOR IT!
You watch... THE LIST OF POST WILL GO ON AND ON! I find that hillarious! I know that most of you find me very sarcastic and to be...well... a jerk. I would also feel that way in your position.. I would also be so used to blaming other people for things and focusing on everyone else instead of myself:) You people Love everything and cant get along with anyone. That one will set in later.
ouch I guess you could call this a form of tough love... Sometimes the truth is painful, sometimes the truth of Jesus can even bring people to anger. That is why your upset right? Ohh and by the way.. For those of you who used scripture in your post..... PLEASE PLEASE DO ME A FAVOR
please answer this... HOW DO YOU HAVE THE NERVE TO POST SCRIPTURE WHEN YOU CANT EVEN FIND THE SELF RESPECT OR THE COURAGE TO FOLLOW IT? THATS RIGHT I SAID IT...IF YOU DONT HAVE THE COURAGE TO LIVE UP TO THE MORAL CODE OF THE BIBLE THEN PLEASE DO US ALL A FAVOR AND DONT DARE POST SCRIPTURE. I find it funny again that some of you posted up scripture in a attempt to twist it to your own use. SO BASICALLY YOU USED GOD'S OWN BOOK TO TRY AND PROVE THAT HE DOES NOT EXIST? That is like cleaning your rear with toliet paper and taking a large crap then putting your pants back on... ITS NOT LOGICAL!!
Although I must say that some of you might do that.... because I SMELL YOUR CRAP!! LOL! I know that many of you are now on a mission to tear down the words I have spoken to you... but like I said this will be the last time I visit your little "web site" MANY OF YOU EXCLAIM YEAH YEAH!! HE IS GONE HE IS LEAVING!! Many of you are happy I will not be back! The TRUE reason why will also hit you later in your thoughts. I know The truth is sometimes harsh people.... It's ok. Let me ask you something in closing this is something you can ponder....You dont belive in GOD? or the BIBLE? But yet the Bible has predicted many events throughout history. ISRAEL BECOMING A NATION? FAMINES one thrid of the world remains starving
EARTHQUAKES, NATION AGAINST NATION, MANY WILL COME IN CHRIST NAME CLAIMING TO BE THE MESSIAH, There are more wars going on right now then ever before in history:(
HURRICANES, WEATHER CHANGES, Wow for a book that you say is "Bull" It sure has told of alot that is coming true. Wow you cant really argue with that can you? How could a book that is so full of crap predict these events? Wow maybe this old book is God's Word and plan of salvation? Maybe you should take another look and keep a open heart and mind this time. And just think... With all this prophecy coming true... Just wait untill CHRIST COMES BACK AND EVERYONE OF YOU SHALL BOW AND EVERY TONGUE WILL EXCLAIM THAT CHRIST IS LORD>>> EVEN YOUR TONGUES WILL BE FORCED TO PROCLAIM THAT! EVEN satan HAS ESTABLISHED HIS CHURCH ON EARTH! satan even has a bible now did you know that?
It's crazy to think that the one leading your non belief actually belives in GOD! This will also sink deep down inside you in further thought. Ohhh by the way... satan's bible has one law....
"Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law"
So when you deny God's laws to fullfill your selfish desires like everyone of you does. Your actually following satan. Is that good to know? I hope you dont take pride in that. So now you can also consider your non belief as satanic. Not only do you have to prove God wrong you now have to prove satan wrong as well. WOW lets think about that for a minute. It seems as if you few are under a "spell" satan's teachings claim your wrong... and God's teachings say your wrong to. How does it feel to be a REJECT?
Thank you for your time
Kevin "TRUTH HURTS"
You said "...if you really want to know that God is real.... Pray and ask him to reveal that to you."
Okay, cool. Tell me exactly what words I should say, and I'll give it a try. I'll also report back to you about what, if anything, happens. Do we have a deal?
To make this more interesting, would you also be willing to pray to both Allah and Krishna and ask them to reveal themselves to you? I suggest kneeling, at least for Allah (I understand he appreciates that). You probably ought to touch your forehead to the floor while shouting "Praise Allah" a few times, then ask him to forgive your sins (such as touting the Christian blasphemy), and then finally request that he reveal himself, or at least give you an unmistakable sign. I'm not sure what the correct protocol would be for Krishna. There are probably some Muslims and Hindu's out there who would be delighted to help with the respective rituals; you would not wish to inadvertently offend either one of these deities, I presume.
So, how about it?
God is man’s mental concept that he chose to invent so as to give someone something to believe in for a universal answer. The word God is the three letter answer for everything unknown to man. When anything that is unknown to man is questioned, the question is answered by the three letter answer God, by default, thereby the question is answered and it is no longer has to be debated in one’s own mind. Now one must not question any further, questioning any further would be setting one up to question the existence of this imaginary God. We must not ever question the existence of this imaginary God, because you will suffer unending consequences. This God already knows what your motives are and will therefore punish you according to your ulterior motives. In other words you must not ever question the existence of this God, otherwise you will advise this God of your intent to question his existence and he will judge you and punish you according to your works and deeds. So in the end, God is solely the invention and creation of a man, but one must not ever question the existence of this imaginary being, to do so would cause a multitude of different beliefs and religions to spring up all over the world, and certainly no God would ever want that to happen.