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Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

stronger now — Wed, 20 Jun 2007 09:57:00 -0000

"glory cloud" lol!

I don't even want to know.

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

.:webmaster:. — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 20:39:00 -0000

Anony,

You might want to see a psychiatrist.

Just a thought.

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Anonymous — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 16:40:00 -0000

I've experienced God's tangible power. My pastor has seen the glory cloud of God and so have I. He has also had a visitation from an angel in the mid 1980's. I know that I will never forget the first time I felt the power of God.

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Anonymous — Wed, 02 May 2007 13:38:00 -0000

Anonymous: "You certainly think she is very smart, but the only words we've gotten from her are something to the effect that "mainstream Christianity is just an offshoot derived from Catholicism and thus must also be false" which is rather misinformed, so I have my doubts."

You certainly think you are very smart, but the only words we've gotten from you is something to the effect that "mainstream Christianity is not an offshoot derived from Catholicism and thus must not be false" which is rather misinformed, so I have my doubts.

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Anonymous — Wed, 02 May 2007 12:51:00 -0000

This is a fascinating site.

I agree that Christianity has a number of very hard-to-believe aspects when looked at through both rational and empirical lenses... I'm currently a semi-Christian/fledgling Ex myself due to these issues (as well as a disenfranchisement from the "apologetics" hogwash - the TRUE word of God would need no such intervention from man to make sense).

But... some of the references cited here by other Ex Christians have as many holes as the porous faith they reject.

Mithra as an influence for Christ? Seriously? If you really believe this, you may want to stop reading what Franz Cumont said and start doing your own research about the differences between Roman Mithraism and pre-Zoroastrian Mithra. Cumont meant well, but this whole "Christ is a rip-off Mithra" concept is sort of predicated on a few assumptions made by Cumont which have later turned out to be less than true, for what it's worth.

Also - to the original writer of the "wife" article. Who is this wife of yours?? She seems as wily and convincing as Eve herself! You always whip her out to debunk all defenses and explanations of Christian faith but you never give any details or get into specifics about what she says.

You certainly think she is very smart, but the only words we've gotten from her are something to the effect that "mainstream Christianity is just an offshoot derived from Catholicism and thus must also be false" which is rather misinformed, so I have my doubts. One could argue that, for the purpose of this article, you've substituted your wife for God. Instead us buying into (supposedly) God's words and ideals without any kind of rationalization to back them up, you expect us to buy into your wife's in much the same manner. No thanks.

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Anonymous — Sat, 23 Sep 2006 17:21:00 -0000

I dont mean to disrespect anyone out there. I just happend to come across this website. I've read some of the comments posted.

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Anonymous — Tue, 03 Jan 2006 16:08:00 -0000

>>>I am sure this has been addressed before. Why does xianity, if it is so true, need apologetics?<<<

Apologetics is "damage-control" for those who actually read the whole Bible; not just the parts the preacher tells em to.

Jesus' clearly and specifically said he would return during the lifetime of his listeners, NUMEROUS TIMES. The prophecy failed yet we twist ourselves into pretzels trying to convince people (including ourselves) that it isn't a failed prophecy but a future event.

It's taken me 5 years to totally deprogramm after a lifetime of indoctrination. Getting heavily involved in apologetics (damage control) was the beginning of the end of my faith in this fake bullshit.

Finding out that Jesus was a rip-off of Mithra (among other pagan gods) was another.

Looking back now all I can say is WTF was I thinking? Virgins don't have babies and dead guys don't reanimate after being dead - that should have been two big old clues right there. With those two facts one doesn't even have to examine the rest of the buy-bull.

Congradulations to the OP and his wife for not wasting away several more decades on this scary, schizophenic crap. I wish I had back my "lost" decades but hey, it's better late than never.

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Luke — Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:44:00 -0000

Jamie,

I'm sure that it was not easy being raised an agnostic/atheist (which were you, they're very different) when everyone around you believes in a supernatural being or beings. But I can easily see someone who was raised as an atheist or agnostic becoming a believer, especially since Christians will try so hard to "save" someone like you.

But an exbeliever who becomes an atheist or agnostics will rarely go back. We have dug so deep into our belief systems and found them to be contradictory, cruel and false it would be almost impossible for us to believe again.

Also, you said that you had an experience that convinced you that God exists. Well, people have had experiences like alien abductions that have convinced them that beings from outer space regularly visit Earth. Do you believe their experiences?

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

RyanD — Mon, 05 Dec 2005 13:39:00 -0000

I'm the one who posed the question if god's plan of salvation were so important that he should of made it a bit clearer. In other words, not let mankind screw it up so bad with all the numerous sects and denominations. Anonymous wrote, "That's the true genius of Christ's plan." Genius huh?Malcontents? Fear based salvation? That is what jesus supposedly died for is the malcontents! Everyone is a malcontent in your god's eyes! Even you! Right, right, your "saved" now. You have the real truth, don't you? And fear, isn't all salvation based on fear? You realize you are sinner according to god's "word" and based upon the end result of his "word" you accept his plan and forego the supposed punishment for being a filthy sinner. So what is that besides fear? Fear of retribution, fear of unknown, fear of death. Fear of whatever. No one comes to the realization one day that they will become saved just because a deity supposedly loves them. Remember it's a reconcilation! You are the one who is in the wrong! You are guilty according his own word. So it is only based on fear and guilt. Because somebody way back ate a piece of fruit! Wow, what genius!

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Ken — Sun, 04 Dec 2005 13:07:00 -0000

Hi Jamie, If you have so much information about God in your life to share, this certainly would be the place to share it, so don't be bashful. Fill us in on what we've been missing. Thanks, Ken.

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Jamie — Sat, 03 Dec 2005 00:02:00 -0000

hey, my Name is Jamie, thats an interesting story, I myself am a Christian, Im not going to throw any debates at you, but I will say I found Christ in a way most havent, I was raised in an agnostic/atheist home, and I was a professed atheist, until an experience changed my life and I realized God did exist, I dont expect you to go back, but Ill gladly share my story if your curious, id be glad to share, ive had so much evidence in my life Im sure God wanted me to know

my emails
jamiehoban@shaw.ca

much love

Jamie

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 23:28:00 -0000

Ian said...Maybe some of the confusion over the meaing of this verse and the equivalent in Matthew 16:28 is due in part to the ignorance of the eschatological tension between the old creation (Adam/death) and new creation (Christ/life). Between the cross and the second coming these two ages overlap, which is how a Christian can be in Christ (part of Christ) and also still sin (part of Adam).

However if we read vs 27 we find that a sign of this his kingdom coming would be "Son of Man, will come in the glory of my Father with his angels and will judge all people according to their deeds." After the resurection he did not come in the glory of the father and his angels and he certainly did not judge all people according to their deeds. It sure looks like all the disciples died before seeing that, which means that this prophecy of Jesus cannot be true.

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Dave8 — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 18:04:00 -0000

Hey Wade, thanks, its nice to know, that we all can make a contribution to a knowledge base, that helps others... I enjoy, thinking through the many twists and turns, I have grown much myself over the past year that I have been posting... I too have greatly benefitted from the posts, and even the challenges ;-) Take care... Dave8

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Wade — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 17:36:00 -0000

Dave 8:

I have been visiting this website for a little over a year now. (This site was a major contribution to helping me put the last nail in the coffin of religion) I must say that I really appreciate all of your post. They are always very informative and well thought out. And of course LEGIBLE….LOL.

Thank You

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Luke — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 13:29:00 -0000

/an,

Another thing. I would encourage you to dig a little deeper. I did an awful lot of digging and I concluded that Christianity is not true.

Did you ever entertain the possibility that your religion is false? If you have never truely and honestly examined it from all perspectives, scriptural, historical, and scientific you have no right to claim that it is true.

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Luke — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 13:24:00 -0000

/an,

Nope, Jesus is clearly talking about the Second Coming, End Times. Claiming that he is referring to the Pentecost is simply apologetics. My friend did consider that possibility, because like I said he spent five years struggling with this question.

Here is the problem with the Pentecost theory. If you read the epistles of Paul, he clearly believed that Jesus was going to return very soon. Why do you think Paul thought celibacy to be superior to marriage? Because he believed the end was coming, before all of Jesus' disciples tasted death, therefore marriage and childbearing were no longer necessary.

1 Corinthians 7
26Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for you to remain as you are. 27Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife. 28But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this. 29What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short.

Now I'm sure you'll tell me that no, no Paul was talking about something else. That is the nice thing about the Bible. If any verse doesn't make sense you can always pretend that it was actually referring to something else.

Like I said this particular issue led to the unraveling of my friend's faith not mine. I spent months questioning, reading, studying and debating before I came to the conclusion that Christianity was simply another myth and that the God of the Christians is just as much myth as the ancient gods of the Greeks, Romans, Druids, and Egyptians.

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

/an — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 12:47:00 -0000

Quote by Luke

I have a friend who said Mark 9 verse 1 was the undoing of his faith. "And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power."" Now, Jesus is saying that some of his followers will live to see the second coming, the end times, whatever you want to call it. Well, 2000 years later it still hasn't happened and of course all of Jesus' followers are dead. So, my friend read the apologetics, which satisfied him for a while. But nagging questions kept popping up. He talked to his pastor, his friends, he prayed about yet he still was troubled by it. It took five years but he finally decided that Christians were a bunch of fools waiting for an event that Jesus had said was going to happen 2000 years ago.

Jesus is not talking about the second coming here.

The Kingdom of God (new creation) that Jesus is talking about started when Jesus died and was resurrected. It came with power when his spirit was poured out at Pentecost and 3000 people were converted. Jesus came 2000 years ago to establish his Kingdom on earth, not simply to die and dissapear with the promise "I'll be back".

Maybe some of the confusion over the meaing of this verse and the equivalent in Matthew 16:28 is due in part to the ignorance of the eschatological tension between the old creation (Adam/death) and new creation (Christ/life). Between the cross and the second coming these two ages overlap, which is how a Christian can be in Christ (part of Christ) and also still sin (part of Adam).

I really hope this can encourage you to dig a little deeper.

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Ken — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 12:30:00 -0000

I believe in what I know is the truth, not what I want to believe in, but what has prooved to be true, this requires no faith. I know that the Sun exists, because I can see it, and feel it. I know that air exists because I can feel it when it or I move. I do not have any faith in anything that someone says exists just by their testimony, saying that something written in a book says that it exists. It takes a lot more faith than I'm willing to muster to over-ride my ingrain common sense and believe in something someone wrote down over 2000 years ago and called it inspired from God. Now that really is a stretch.

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Dave8 — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 10:49:00 -0000

jim earl: "I can't understand how children can readily accept that Santa is not real but won't accept the truth about the other beliefs they were taught as children."

Jim, Santa is easy to dispell, there are few children who reinforce the belief via peer pressure, Santa goes away in a finite time, i.e., Santa "will" stop coming to the tree, its just a matter of time, well, witht the assumption that a child will move away from home one day, and become autonomous... And lastly, this Metaphysical concept (Santa), produces Material evidence, which is easy to observe and make inference, if no presents, then no Santa...

Metaphysial beliefs like, relying on a Metaphysially Objective Reality, where Perfect Beings residing as Objects, are harder to dispell, because, there is a continual reinforcement group in society making a case for the concept... Also, there is zero material evidence for this concept, nothing to observe, in order to dispell the "notion"... The only evidence provided, typically for Christians is the bible for a NT Jesus, but even though the bible taken hisorically shows the obvious disparity between what the OT Jews beliefs were, and the Romanized NT beliefs, some Christians typically are willing to overlook the historical evolution of their own religion, and "persuade" themselves that the OT and NT of the bible was written by the same God concept...

jim earl: "To me that is a real problem we face today with people who want to believe in spite of the evidence againt blind belief. What can we do when faced with that? If anyone can answer that please do so."

Yes, I agree, to me... I have to believe in something I can actually "know" firshand... Religion doesn't have this benefit, people must believe on what Others have told them, by second, third, thousand hand revelation, etc... To disbelieve, requires a person, to acknowledge those who have told them, may have indeed been wrong, or just lied... To ask some people to remove their best frieds, role model, family, etc, from their elevated pedestal, is difficult based on the level of "trust" the person has extended to that messenger... It calls into question that persons' ability to make sound character judgements, and for a messenger in the family, it will cause everything to be called into question, from religion, to Values, etc... to call into question the source that has provided one their Values, Self-Identity, Self-Worth, etc., can place someone is a state where they are no longer Anchored in this reality... Our Conscious is driven by our Identity, if we lose Identity, it challenges our ability to keep mentally sane... Those who have passed through the phase of reconcilliation, and have had to re-establish their Own Values, and Identity, have not had an easy road, many take years to finally come to terms with who they are, and accept themselves unconditionally, with all of their Individual characteristics with humility... Many noted psychologists, have stated, that to challenge a persons' identity, is akin to threatening their mental well-being, some make it through with those who are wise and able to guide, and then there are those who aren't capable of Self-Stabalizing, and go through life continually detached...

We all have to be grounded or anchored to have a peaceful life... Those who are anchored like moss, are attached ever so slightly and co-dependtly on the branches of the great Natural oak... I prefer to be the oak, firmly rooted in the Natural ground... I don't particularly like being swayed, aimlessly, every time the hot air blows...

So, the best one can do, is to provide care to those individuals who are blowing around aimlessly, and attempt to determine their need, and show them alternatives that allow them a smooth transition... being a guide, is an art... hope that offers some insights, that I have picked up, take care...

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Sonny — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 06:42:00 -0000

FYI,
The true genius of Christ's Plan: As perpetrated by Joseph and Mary.....Mary was at the age of 12 when she was espoused to be married to Joseph, but Mary was raped by the local priest. In order for her and Joseph not to be stonned to death, the Priest quickly devised the insemination by Angels Fraud, otherwise all three would have been stonned to death and people that had been praying for the promised return of their Blessed Massiah, had just been fulfilled. Thus the genius of Christ's PLan was devised by none other than the local Priest, this led to be the biggest Hoax and Scam ever to be devised and believed in the History of the World. Even Mary and Joseph were stupid enough to believe the Priest's concocted story. This needs no proof, it's so very obvious, that it's all such a Grand Hoax.

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Dave8 — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 02:34:00 -0000

anonymous: "That's the true genius of Christ's plan."

What, to get his all powerful dad to murder him? Or, to be an all powerful God, who committed suicide? I've seen more genius from a rat in a maze looking for cheese...

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Luke — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 00:14:00 -0000

"who wants wimpy malcontents in your house, just there to get away from the rain?! If you are in his house, it's because you BELIEVE, and believe in spite of the secularists, the liberals, the ACLU and all the other God haters who are trying to wish away the final judgment that they, in the back of their minds, know is acoming."

These are exactly the kind of over-emotional arguments made by people who have a desire to believe but cannot defend those beliefs using evidence and rationality.

By the way, many liberals are churchgoers. Is your knowledge of the world so limited that you don't know that?

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Anonymous — Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:29:00 -0000

-who wants wimpy malcontents in your house, just there to get away from the rain?! -

All I had to do is open the door, that's when I realized that there was no rain.

Now you my friend are in his house because you are afraid of what is outside.

Your Pal,
Farris

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

starhum — Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:11:00 -0000

Luke, your insights, and those of the other commentators, are a great inspiration to us old folks who having been doing the same type of analysis and truth-seeking since childhood. The greatest gift (from 'god' ?) we humans have is our gift of reason, abstraction, and communication - it makes no sense that we should not use these.

Re: My wife lost her faith - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Anonymous — Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:09:00 -0000

some person wrote: " If salvation is soooo important and biblegod soooo loved the world, shouldn't it be made a wee bit more clear, so one could make a more rational decision?"

That's the true genius of Christ's plan. If he made it so obvious you were ex's were going to burn in hell, well then, you'd just be under his tent because your fear forced you there. Not good... who wants wimpy malcontents in your house, just there to get away from the rain?! If you are in his house, it's because you BELIEVE, and believe in spite of the secularists, the liberals, the ACLU and all the other God haters who are trying to wish away the final judgment that they, in the back of their minds, know is acoming.
Think about what I've said... there is genius beyond human courage or comprehension in the Bible.