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Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

AtheistToothFairy — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 13:32:55 -0000

For anyone still wishing to read the original article report on the emphatic mice, the link has moved to this location:

http://www.cbc.ca/health/st...

ATF (Who thinks heavenly angels must be mice in disguise [g] )

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

baselise — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 06:29:23 -0000

I once again apologize for any unkind remarks to everyone here. I believe what I believe and you belive what you do. It was my fault for entering a place for exchristians, thinking that I could help a wandering brother ( I know now that my kind of help is not helpful). When i read the first post, the person had been insulted by christians, i really did not see the logic in not living with God inspite of remarks of Christians. I did not know that only ex-christians should be responding, I opened a page right to the first remark. I never meant to stir up all the trouble that I have.

No. As I tried to explain before, I wanted this to be true, and believeing that it was nearly drove me insane. I counted on this biblegod this jesus to help me in my darkest hour. I don't expect you to nderstand the dissappointment I felt as I and the situation that drove me to dispair only got worse.

I am sorry that I added to any of your pain in your life, that was not my intention. I wish you well , and again I am so sorry to you and everyone here.

Sincerely
Baselice

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

AtheistToothFairy — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 00:27:41 -0000

Baselice said to us:
"So for me, I'll just say good-bye to you and I will pray for you and others here"
--
Well thanks baselice. I'm sure your prayers will certainly 'multiply' the effect of all the other xtians, who also told us they would pray for us.
I do wonder why all these many prayers have had a zero effect on changing our ex-xtian minds?

Let me take a stab at answering this for you.
Zero multiplied by any number, is still equal to ZERO.
i.e. You are all praying to a god who has a reality factor of zero.

Also, I was never so free as when I realized that your god (like all ancient gods), was made up by men's imaginations.

Your bible god is not good, but in fact, is far more evil than you make your devil character out to be in your fairy tale book of old.
If you doubt this, show me how many evil things the devil has done to human kind, versus how many evil things your god has done to us.

You god wins the evil contest, hands down !!

ATF

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Astreja — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 23:50:50 -0000

Baselice: "I wish I could find words to convince you of what believing in Jesus has done for me..."

Well, obviously it's made you incapable of comprehending the term Ex-Christian. Nonetheless, your subjective experiences are inadmissible as evidence here.

"i don't know how you could arrive at this way of thinking, how your heart has become so cold to your creator, you seem to know things about God but they are distorted..."

Several unsupported assertions,

One: No proof that there is a 'creator'.

Two: You can not read our minds, so you are not in a position to judge our emotional relationship to your imaginary friend.

Three: You are also not in a position to determine that our perspective is "distorted", as you have no evidence to support your version of the story. And no, the Bible is not admissible as evidence either.

"you say we christians want you to believe what we believe, that is true we would not be children of God if we did not care for the lost."

Pure arrogance. We are not 'lost'.

"...It is not fare that you accuse all the loving missionaries here and abroad who give of there own selves to help many in worse pain then you..."

Over the centuries, "loving" missionaries have done incalculable harm to numerous civilizations. I'd be more inclined to think of them as decent people if they simply rendered services without trying to convert disadvantaged and suffering people to their creepy little religion.

"Your thinking is distorted of God, who are we to question God..."

Remember that little incident in the Garden of Eden? Humanity was supposedly condemned for possessing knowledge of good and evil. We have every right to question the morality of your god.

" and He sent His beloved Jesus to die for EVERYONE not just some..."

I do not accept having anyone die in My place, god or no god. Substitutionary atonement is barbaric.

"How could a God who would sarifice His own son, so that we not be punished for our own sins be cruel and horrible as you say."

Um... I know this one... Because this alleged god supposedly sacrificed his own fucking son to save humanity from a place of eternal punishment that it, itself created? Am I getting close?

"You waste your life hating God and all who love Him, for no reason at all."

Well, as much as I despise Christianity I can't really say that I hate your pet god. You see, I don't think it actually exists. I do hate the concept of Biblegod, however, because it's one of the sorriest god-archetypes in all the world's mythology.

But you, Baselice, have provided us all with ample reasons to hate you. For one thing, you refuse to accept that our experiences with Christianity led us away from the cult. As is the case with so many of our preachy visitors, you assume that you have some magical truth that we somehow never noticed.

"I hope that you will give Jesus your heart and allow Him to heal you, He alone can cure your pain."

That sounds suspiciously like an abusive man telling his victim "No one will ever love you as much as I do."

"God Bless you and may He make you see that!"

Make us see that?
Well, so much for that "free will" shit.

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

TheJaytheist — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 18:58:34 -0000

I understand that it is comforting to believe that you have a best friend who is all powerful. Just because you feel this is so, why should you expect us to believe it?

" He alone can cure your pain."

I then realized that the prayers I prayed did nothing. They were useless because what I was praying to wasn't real.

I do not hate you. I hate what religion does to otherwise feeling thinking people.

For tha sake of explaining, why would you think I would want to worship this biblegod? He doesn't seem to understand love. He twists the meaning of it to cover horrible things that no empathetic person would or should accept. The bible explains gods love as being conditional, with threats of eternal punishment. It explaines that the greatest relationship someone could ever hope to have is with a "person" who wouldn't think twice about tortureing you if you decide you didn't want to be friends with him. It explaines that this curse was placed on everyone who is born and that in order to be freed of it, an otherwise thinking feeling rational person has to accept that there is nothing wrong with letting an innocent person be tortured and murdered, and to not only just accept it, but accept it as a good thing. It explaines that god want's blood. Again, that's not love. It never was, and it never will be.

This isn't the lovey dovey god you make him out to be. I've read the bible. I know the hateful stupidity that the biblegod displayed in it.

But you expect us to ignore those things, not think about them and just believe it. And why? Because you think it would be better for us. Why? Why would it be better for us? I know the answer. It's plain and simple. It would be better to ignore the injustice, the stupidity and the vileness of the biblegod, in hopes of avoiding being tortured forever.
But don't get me wrong, these are not reasons to think the biblegod doesn't exist, per se. They are only reasons why I cannot, would not, worship shuch a being. The reasons I think he doesn't exist is because of the lack of credible evidence that there is any god at all.

I have little doubt that there are people who consider themselves to be christians who do very good things all over the world. I also have little doubt that there are people who consider themselves to be wiccans who do very good things all over the world as well. This makes what you believe in no more true than what a wiccan believes in. What makes you think that I am not being fair, when you are the one discounting other religious people and what they do?

Yes, I do have children. I love them unconditionally. That means, I will not torture them, ever, even if they don't love me back. Do you think that the biblegod feels the same about us?

I don't think the biblegod exists. But even if it were shown to be true, I wouldn't worship that horrible thing unless he changed his ways and repented of his sins against humanity.

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

sconnor — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 18:39:44 -0000

Fuck off.

--S.

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

baselice — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:41:04 -0000

I honestly would never go this far to prove what I believe to someone with unkind words back and forth. In my life I try to show the truth through being loving and being there for the people God puts in my path, I took a chance since I fell onto this page while looking for something else. I am not a person to debate my faith usually, I much rather try by God's help to live it. So for me, I'll just say good-bye to you and I will pray for you and others here. I do hope you are not too angry at me for defending my beliefs. I apologize for any rudeness on my part.

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

boomSLANG — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:33:13 -0000

and you it seems take a lot of time to fight and convince other's of a God you say does not exist to be a God of hate

I'll make a deal with you--stop taking the time to insist to others that "God" exists, and then "Atheism" will become obsolete. 'Deal?

As for a "God of hate", your holy bible comfirms this all on its own; it doesn't need my help.

I will continue to pray for you, I hope someday your heart heals also.

My "heart" is just fine---' just had a check-up, as a matter of fact. As for begging your invisible friend to reconvert me, if such a being exists, it already knows what I presumably need, as well as why I fell away in the first place. Thus, I would imagine your prayers would be an insult to any All-powerful, omniscient being.

So why not believe, wouldn't you rather be free and alive with the RISEN Lord JESUS, I do so hope you change your thinking. Remember God is waiting, He's patient not wanting any to PERISH He loves you!!!!

So why not believe, wouldn't you rather be free and alive with the Almighty Allah?! I do so hope you change your thinking. Remember, Allah is waiting, He's patient not wanting any to PERISH. Allah loves you!!! Praise Allah....the one true God! I love you Allah, my invisible friend in the sky!

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

baselice — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:19:44 -0000

and you it seems take a lot of time to fight and convince other's of a God you say does not exist to be a God of hate, I will continue to pray for you, I hope someday your heart heals also.

Attention: "Jesus" only died for BELIEVERS. !!!!

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

boomSLANG — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:02:57 -0000

baselice: Your thinking is distorted of God, who are we to question God if He says in His word He does not want any to perish and He sent His beloved Jesus to die for EVERYONE not just some., then He means it!

There are several flaws in your reasoning. Here are just a few:

- There has never been, there isn't now, and there never will be, Universal agreement on what the alleged intentions and desires of the Christian biblegod are. ALL Christians claim to have the One True Interpretation of Christian doctrine, thus, ALL Christians can point fingers and assert that the other guy's "thinking is distorted". This is the nature of subjective philosophies such as religious belief.

- If the deity of the Christian bible presumably "doesn't want" something, in this case, for human beings to "perish", then perhaps this alleged being should have thought about that before "creating" beings that have the propensity to displease it. The perfect, Omniscient "Creator" could simply create beings that please it, that way, the "Creator" wouldn't have to stress-out 24/7about getting its needs and desires met, and this would not effect the "free will" of the "creaton" one single bit. The "creation" can still decide if they accept and love the "Creator", or not.

- If the debt of "sin" is paid "for EVERYONE not just some", then nothing should be required or owed; EVERYONE should be debt-free. We don't see that, however. What we see, is the payment is offered in exchange for belief. No belief?...no eligibility for pre-paid "debt".

So, you, like most Christians, have misrepresented the truth.

Attention: "Jesus" only died for BELIEVERS. !!!!

PS: what's even more hilarious, is "Jesus" is presumably ALIVE and well....thus, in actuality, "Jesus" didn't "die" for ANYONE'S "sins".

Join me for a moment of silence: Christianity is bullsh*t. Amen.

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

baselice — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:43:23 -0000

Bye

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

baselice — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:19:06 -0000

I wish I could find words to convince you of what believing in Jesus has done for me, the peace that anchors my soul, i don't know how you could arrive at this way of thinking, how your heart has become so cold to your creator, you seem to know things about God but they are distorted. You will no doubt before life for you ends have sorrow, we all do. But to hate God and blame God, for the evil in this world, only leaves me sad for you and all like you who hate christians, blame christians, you say we christians want you to believe what we believe, that is true we would not be children of God if we did not care for the lost. I can only speak for myself, but it is not fare that you accuse all the loving missionaries here and abroad who give of there own selves to help many in worse pain then you and for this God that you walked away from.
Your thinking is distorted of God, who are we to question God if He says in His word He does not want any to perish and He sent His beloved Jesus to die for EVERYONE not just some., then He means it! If He has fore knowledge to know that many will reject Him, He is God. How could a God who would sarifice His own son, so that we not be punished for our own sins be cruel and horrible as you say. DO YOU HAVE ANY CHILDREN God made a way for us and Jesus laid down His life for us, he did not have to. You harden your heart to the truth. You waste your life hating God and all who love Him, for no reason at all. your hate is misplaced.
Can I ask you when you were a christian, I am assuming that there was time that you gave your life to Jesus, did you ever strive to know Him, did you abide with Him did you only follow Him on conditions? HATE Me all you want, but please don't hate your SAVIOR please don't close your heart to Him.
I hope that you will give Jesus your heart and allow Him to heal you, He alone can cure your pain.
And He is willing and waiting with open arms even as you read this. He loves you, He loves you, He loves you.
God Bless you and may He make you see that!
I hope everywhere you look you see HIM

----------------------------------------

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

TheJaytheist — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:08:52 -0000

Oh yes, that is the god of the bible. Read it sometime, you will see a god that condones the murder of innocent children, wipes out all of humanity(babies included) except for eight people, makes people change their minds about doing what he wanted them to do in the first place thus causeing them to rebel against him, and he tortures people for all eternity for being what he knew they would be before he made them. And if you don't love him back, he'll torture you for all eternity. Not a nice character.

"God is patient not wanting ANY to perish."

Except that he actually knows already who will perish before he even formes them in the womb. Sorry, but if he doesn't know the future, he doesn't sound like an allknowing god. If he does know the future, then he knowingly creates the people he knows are going to hell.

If you were married to a man that built a torture chamber in the basement to torture you if you ever thought about leaving him, and he expected to do the same to your children if they didn't love him, would you say he really loved you? That's what the biblegod does. So there is the abuse. Psychological abuse.

"Stronger Now: "Do you think that telling a child that they are so wicked that they deserve to be tortured forever doesn't inflict emotional pain?"
I would not want to be the person who told the child this, God says that christian will be judged for all we say and do."

This is exactly the kind of thing the "salvation plan" says. It's exactly what is taught in the bible. It's the exact message you expect us to swallow, except you wrap it in lovey-dovey emotion laden rhetoric.

I'm sorry you were abused. I was too. It almost broke my mind trying to deal with it in a christian way. There was no peace for me in christianity, there was only more (psychological) abuse. That's why I had to let go of my imaginary friend.

I hope someday you will see the light of reason. And let go of yours as well.

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Melodramy — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 08:36:10 -0000

Gen 22:1-2 "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, [here] I [am]. And he said, Take now thy son, thine only [son] Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering ..."

Isa 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

Num 25:3-4 "..and the LORD said unto Moses, 'Take all the heads of the people and hang them up before the LORD against the sun..."

Ezek 9:5-6 "Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and woman..."

1 Sam. 19:9 "And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand"

Mat. 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword..."

Luke 19:27 "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

baselice — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 07:41:23 -0000

I guess I know from my own life that it is a truth that when the Bible says that we only love Him because He first loved us, I know this to be true for me. As far as some of the things Christians say that are cruel or feel like they are throwing Bible verses at you.
1) i read a comment here yesterday about a person who took their life and a christian telling them that the person won't go to Heaven. THAT'S NOT IN THE BIBLE, the God of the BIBLE knows the condition of the person's mind that they would end their life, He would not punish them , besides once a person has accepted Christ for their own savior for sins, it's sealed NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO!!!! God may correct them for their own good, just as a Father corrects us for our own good, that's in the Bible.
2) Not to make excuses for people, but they are just mere humans, becoming a christian does not mean you know everything, it takes years and much of life's lessons and most important a personal relationship with Jesus to know God and how compassionate He is. I would not allow or make excuses for humans opinions of God keep me from knowing Him and being His Child. Salvation through Christ is for everyone, that;s in the Bible too! It's for all who call on the name of the Lord, all the reasons for rejecting God should be because you have searched His word sought to know if He is real, not because of what people say. If i believe in a God that is not for real, so be it, He is to me and He has made my painful life worth living. And when I say painful, let me share just a snapshot , a child whose mother spent much of her life in mental hospitals while my father abused me and my sister sexually for years, he used me and my brother's as punching bags and then there were the foster homes and being raped, this is just a bit. I am almost 50 and you may now say where was your God when all this happened? He has not caused the evil in this world, He destroyed it once with a flood and then promised with a rainbow never to again. It pained God then that He would create a world, love it and bless it and such evil to come upon it. If we think the sorrows of this world cause us grief, just imagine having to see it all, and yet God is patient not wanting ANY to perish. All I can challenge is to seek for yourselves this God of the Bible that has lasted through all of time. And forget whatever Christians wrong remarks have lead you to believe. Jesus said pick up your cross and follow ME, He did not say to follow other's.
And one last remark , it is the first and greatest command that we love the LORD OUR GOD WITH ALL OUR HEARTS MINDS AND SOULS< so i do not see the abuse you speak of. God loved me first when i was still a sinner and Christ died for me, and now I have grown to love all He has given me, and words cannot convey what His love has done for me and continues to, and my life has many sorrows yet I would not trade them for knowing Him as I do.
Stronger Now: "Do you think that telling a child that they are so wicked that they deserve to be tortured forever doesn't inflict emotional pain?"
I would not want to be the person who told the child this, God says that christian will be judged for all we say and do. Many christians need to grow and that is why God corrects us. I felt sad when I fell upon this site, I feel sad when ever I meet christian that are damaged or hurt by other christian cold remarks. But that's not the God of the BIBLE.

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Astreja — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 00:10:24 -0000

Stronger Now: "Do you think that telling a child that they are so wicked that they deserve to be tortured forever doesn't inflict emotional pain?"

Exactly. Frightening people with tales of Hell is psychological and emotional abuse, and the effects can last a lifetime.

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

TheJaytheist — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:15:06 -0000

" I know Jesus loves me and He never hurts me,..."

That's nice. However, if you don't love him back, he will. That is an abusive relationship. That's why it's a good thing this jesus is only an imaginary friend of yours. Sorry. Just about everyone struggles with emotional pain. Sometimes it's intensified by believing in things that aren't real. Do you think that telling a child that they are so wicked that they deserve to be tortured forever doesn't inflict emotional pain?

Believing in fairy tales isn't a remedy for emotional pain when it takes emotional pain to accept the fairy tale.

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

baselice — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 08:44:28 -0000

Hi
I am a Christian, and i have struggled for 24 years with emotional pain, i still struggle, i went through a period where i hid from everyone because my pain got so severe. I cry everyday and I pray always to the Lord to heal me, the Holy Spirit gives me verses from the Word of God when I am crying about healing, I don;t know how to apply or claim them so that I feel free in Christ and live joyfully as I know I should. You are right christian don't always know how to reach out, many feel they have to say the right things and all the while they are suffering as you and i. There is a wound so incurable that humans cannot heal God alone can.I strive to help people like you that struggle as I do, i can't fix or change christian that are living self righteous, i can only love them too, or else i become like them. Jesus came to heal the sick, not the ones who don't need it. I would love to talk with you more, i'll leave that up to you. With one thought. I know Jesus loves me and He never hurts me, the rest of this fallen world does.
MaryAnn

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Rachel Black — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:53:00 -0000

im going to have to disagree with you. i do not know u and in no way at all am i trying to insult u. i also dont want this to come off as me trying to butter up christianity as a religion. but, christians are not really like that. and im sure u really dont give a crap that im saying this and that you've heard this for the twentyth time but your blog insulted everything i beleive in. the idea of christianity is not so we can be brainwashed with the idea that we have something to look forward to in the after life but instead its to get us to know and have a relationship with our God who created us. the idea is that we are sinners. that sucks to hear i know but thats why we have God. he can forgive us of our sins and we'll be seen just as pure as before we sinned. im sorry that u analyzed what someone told you, about your friend that died, so deeply. everyone will die and there's nothing that should make u feel better about it so quickly. u should morn. there is nothing wtong about that. the person who i think u missunderstooid just cares about u and maybe u didnt ask for a shoulder to cry on. maybe they were hesitant to be that open to u because maybe they were feeling just as much pain as u and didnt know how to say it. i could be wrong i dont know the situation but thats what i got from it. if i am, maybe they were trying to be respectful and ur sensitive about it so u missunderstood it. now what i dont get is what gave u the instinct that it would be a good idea to write an entire blog about how u disagree with a religion...u kind of contrdicted ur self. u talk about how it hurts for people to tell u that ur a sinner... after christians recognize that everyone is a sinner and thats why we need god. u say that it "hurts" to hear ur bitter and then u tell all ur readers that christianity is a whole bunch of bull shit. well this hurts me. maybe u should reconsider that.
and not for a second would i think that im brainwashed. i never put on a fake smile and i dont try to make every one joyless. granted like u said not everyone is the same so im sure that there are ppl like that in the world and im sorry if u have encountered those ppl. but if i am not happy, i pray about it work it out with god by my side. and also whats so wrong with someone who is dyeing to be offered to convert to christianity? i beleive that we should all be christians no matter when the time comes. and about suiside...it is seen as a sin in the bible to kill oneself but if u are a christian, and u commit suiside, u will go to heaven. now if one does not become a christian, weather u commit suiside or not ur going to hell. and thats ones own fault.
now i wish that u would reconsider ur steriotype about christians and maybe think of the one ur putting on ur self.

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Lupis Noctum — Tue, 03 Oct 2006 14:32:00 -0000

Deamond wrote:

"...but I wasn't "hurt" by that because he was ALWAYS an asshole."

In the online world the acronym LOL is used freely, but rarely do I read anything that actually makes me laugh out loud. That did. Thanks for the belly laugh D!

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Wayne — Thu, 20 Jul 2006 00:31:00 -0000

To xrayman,

Thanks for the kind words; a welcome change to what I am used to. I would not say that my persistence has brought out the "best" in some of the other readers, but, we all interpret what we see differently.

I am sorry to hear about your friend. I have had two similar incidents where people cut me loose because I wasn't "saved" enough or whatever. It's too bad.

I don't have all the answers, in fact, I have VERY few. Luckily I have just as many answers as everyone else. Everyone thinks that what they believe is right; otherwise they wouldn’t believe it. Unfortunately none of us will know for sure until the very end. And maybe not even then.

Thanks again.

Wayne

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Lorena — Sat, 08 Jul 2006 21:55:00 -0000

Hey Dan,

I haven't decided what the heck I am yet, other than good-old me. But I like your hedonist afiliation. I think I may stick with that one.

Next time someone asks, I'll say I am a hedonist.

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Dano — Sat, 08 Jul 2006 12:42:00 -0000

I watched an interview of Salman Rushdie by Bill Moyers the other night and (No the ragheads haven't killed him yet), and his most salient point was that the debate, about all things, must be allowed to continue. People must always have the freedom to disagree.

He gave the example that for many years in this country People used the Bible and Christianity to defend slavery, and oppose women's suffrage.

If the founders of this country had not written into our first laws, or believed in the freedom to speak our minds, the abolition of slavery and equality for women in this country would never have come about.

Bill Moyers asked him, if the newspapers that refused to publish the Danish Cartoons making fun of Mohammed, were not just being respectful of other peoples beliefs, Mr. Rushdie answered with a resounding NO.

He said and I agree that those papers were being cowardly, because given the idiotic way the Arab countries allowed all the rioting over a few silly cartoons, the newspapers were OBLIGATED to publish them, especially since they routinely, publish cartoons of Jews and Christians in Muslim countries.

He cited the truth that if the free countries around the world let a few radicals influence what the rest of the world thinks and reads, it will just empower them to do it again.

Salman Rushdie is an Atheist, and wrote "Satanic Verses" and was condemned to death by the former Iranian spiritual leader for ten years, but he appeared to me as a very clear thinking individual, and adamant that religious fanaticism must always be opposed in any way possible.

Dan (A free, Agnostic, realist, humanist, deist, hedonist)

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

xrayman — Sat, 08 Jul 2006 10:50:00 -0000

Hey Wayne,
You are one hell of a scrapper and I really appreciate you keeping this debate cruising along. I was up last night until 4am reading this great thread. As always it's the persistant Christians like yourself who bring out the best in people like the Webmaster Dave, and convince people like myself(who recently rode right on the fence between belief and non-belief)that religion is total bullshit. When debate ensues between a Christian and a Biblically informed atheist such as Dave, there is usually no contest.

Wayne I lost one of my best friends to a cultlike church. He will no longer associate with me because I was always asking questions he could not answer. In one of the last conversations we had, he told me that we must try not to "Intellectualize" God or religion. What he suggested is that we just shut up and believe without question. The true words of a totally brainwashed individual.

I hope this little debate will allow you to at least ask yourself a few deep questions and perhaps think outside the box for just a moment.

Thanks again Wayne for generating such a great discussion. You really seem like a nice fellow. I respect you for hanging in there.

Peace and Love,

Bill

Re: Mice more Compassionate than Christians - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Dano — Sat, 08 Jul 2006 06:47:00 -0000

Wayne wrote:
" I have also yet to find someone out there besides Christians who will state their true beliefs and stand by them"

Hey Wayne!

Watch the nightly news. You will see at least one person or parts of one person who stated their true beliefs and died for them.

(As a side note: This was written before Wayne narrowed his "I have also yet to find someone out there besides Christians who will state their true beliefs and stand by them," down to only the people on "this" site.)

I don't know what the exact count is, as of today of all the people who gave their lives for their beliefs, but it must run into the billions.

I don't even know how many belief systems there have been since man became intelligent enough to realize that he was going to die, but starting with the belief that a certain mountain was the home of the Gods, to the Sun being God, to mother earth being the source of all that is good, right up to today, I reckon there must have been a couple of hundred thousand religions. PEOPLE HAVE STOOD BY ALL OF THESE RELIGIONS, AND DIED FOR THEM!

You have gone into typical "Christian witnesser mode." People, on just this thread alone, have taken apart your argument completely, and now your brain is going to hold on to your security blanket, and say the hell with logic and rational thought, my blankie means more to me than a bunch of stupid logic.

One day you will be in church listening to your preacher say something you have heard a thousand times, and you will think: "How does he know that? He doesn't know that. He doesn't know any more about God than I do. Where does this hick preacher get the idea he can tell me about God? At that moment he will have lost his power over you and your POCKETBOOK! You will turn your brain back on, and your questions will begin, and this time, and until you die, you will question every claim of all things supernatural and magical, and you will have a certain smugness about the fact that you have a ready answer for most of the big questions about how and why we were created. You will just smile and say: I DON'T KNOW, AND NEITHER DO YOU!

Dan (Perfectly content to be more ignorant than the force that created me)