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Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

.:webmaster:. — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:29:00 -0000

Dan, are you daft? I said that I erred in that I missed the fact that you were quoting someone else at that point in your missive.

And I thought you were wasting time here? Dan, please, go with your impulse and move along now. You've about worn out your welcome.

G'bye.

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Dan Marvin — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:24:00 -0000

Look in context of what I said:

He said this:"my wife of 19 years"(Graham Pockett)

IT was his wife that left him not mine

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

.:webmaster:. — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:42:00 -0000

Dan Marvin asked before rushing off to the Ron Paul party, "Webmaster: "His wife of 19 years left him,"

I never have said that! Where are you getting your information? I am happily married! "

I got it from here: "One day, in the fit of despair after being separated from my wife of 19 years, I asked 'the Creator' (my concept at that time) how I could get her back." LINK

I erred in that I missed the fact that you were quoting someone else at that point in your missive.

Fair thee well!

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

pdwxm29 — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:06:00 -0000

Looks like the party is over.

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Enjjpt — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:46:00 -0000

Dan, you sure know how to pick a winning side.

But, in fairness I'd take Ron Paul's economic platform and limited government ideals anyday. He is out of touch on the rest of the issues, like the war, but I digress.

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Brian — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:19:00 -0000

QUOTE FROM DAN MARVIN:

<<<< I sadly have to bow out, my time is being taken away by the Ron Paul 2008 campaign >>>>

So it's time to go fight the good fight for Ron Paul then. Ok Dan, if that is your way of simply saying, "I have lost this debate and can no longer prove the case for Christ", then I guess that excuse will be good enough.

Happy Trails Dan!

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Dan Marvin — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:27:00 -0000

I don't know why Hebrews is harder for me to understand it just is. I do need to visit it again and I will. BTW, I read the Bible plainly not literally.

I sadly have to bow out, my time is being taken away by the Ron Paul 2008
campaign.

You all seem very resistant anyway, so it would probably be a good idea to end the debate with a 'we will see'. I had fun even though these are very important subjects. I got to know quite a few of you and I am sure you are pleasant people. I mean no harm or ill feelings for any of you. I understand an atheist more as well as I understand my own beliefs more and for that I thank all of you.

to wrap up the last comments:

So you admit you believe, however you can't admit that "You know for sure".

The Bible is truth! I believe if it were full of lies then it wouldn't stand in the test of time like it has. I am speculating no one is sure in speculation, right?

Webmaster: "His wife of 19 years left him,"

I never have said that! Where are you getting your information? I am happily married!

Brian, the "Muslim Bible" (Qur’ān) doesn't even compare to the validity of the Bible. They are not in the same playing field at all, apples and oranges, but I understand your point.

I wish the best for all of you!

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Brian — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:00:00 -0000

QUOTE FROM ENJJPT:

<<<<< I just have a hard time accepting that I was once just like him... >>>>

You know what Dan's reply will be to that Enjjpt.

Here is what Dan will say back to you:

"You were never like me, because I am a christian and you are a false convert also known as "Stony Ground Hearer".

Dan is quiet predictable as most of us already know.

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Brian — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:56:00 -0000

Quote from Dan Marvin:

<<< Hebrews has always a bit mysterious and very different from the other gospels, and for me, the hardest to understand. >>>

Why is it so hard for you to understand Dan? I thought the "Holy Spirit" is supposed to reveal this stuff to you. What's going on?

QUOTE FROM DAN MARVIN:
<<< I believe the Bible would not survive this many years for this many people if it were filled with just lies. Lying is too unnatural to hold up for this long, I actually believe Genesis story of the beginning to the fate of the lost and future descriptions in Revelation. >>>>

So you admit you believe, however you can't admit that "You know for sure". Believing and knowing for sure are two different things Dan.

As for the bible surviving this many years, there are lots of false books out there that are filled with lies that have survived all of these years, such as the "Muslim Bible", (Whatever you call their book).

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Enjjpt — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:13:00 -0000

Useful idiot, I think. Dan's positions have made us think clearly and develop sound anti-theist arguments. His circular reasoning, failure to answer the difficult questions, provide evidence, and sheer hypocrisy have validated all of my conclusions about religion.

I just have a hard time accepting that I was once just like him...

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

.:webmaster:. — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:04:00 -0000

Dan, you don't actually consider yourself an expert on the Bible, do you? That's a biblicist. That, and somone who subcribes to a literalist interpretation of the Bible.

I think Dan's a troll, and I have thougth it for quite some time. His wife of 19 years left him, his wife had a brain problem and later birthed their fourth child. Dan is a stay-at-home Mom, so I guess his brainy, baby-machine wife is out working somewhere.

It's all wacky, and pretty obviously made up. However, of all the trolls I've encountered, Dan is entertaining, in a way.

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

.:webmaster:. — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:58:00 -0000

"No one can possible be as daft as Dan Marvin."

I agree, and have already said as much. However, he ain't me and I ain't him.

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Enjjpt — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:45:00 -0000

boomSlang:

Game, Set, and Match...time for Dan to retire, or try a different occupation.

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

boomSLANG — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:39:00 -0000

Obstinate, reading & writing-challenged Christian(aka "Dan Marvin"), said...

Remember, God's word declares that this is God's plan of salvation; 1. Hear the WORD of God. 2. Believe that Jesus is the Messiah. 3. Repent of your ways that are contrary to God's will. 4. Be Baptized INTO Christ for the forgiveness of your sins and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 5. Remain faithful to the Covenant you have made with God.

Boy, that's a lot of requirements, Marvin....and it is especially in stark contrast to three weeks ago when you went on record to say that "nothing is required" to receive the "free gift" of "salvation".[bold added, to reinforce blatant contradictory statements]

Up to date...

Of course, as I and others have established(using reason, logic, and common sense), the above-quoted list is misleading. Only # 2 is required for "salvation".

Repeat: At it's most fundamental level---in order to qualify for Christianity's concept of "salvation", you need only to BELIEVE. PERIOD. Biblegod puts ALL else secondary to BELIEF in biblegod. In other words, these "laws"; these "standards" that Dan Marvin keeps trying to reinforce, mean jack'.

And moreover, let's not forget that we are "programmed" to fail to meet biblegod's "standard of perfection" in the first place. It is IMPOSSIBLE to acheive biblegod's "standard of perfection"("Dan Marvin", paraphrased).

Given that, we can conclude several interesting things:

1) We are destined for "failure", thus, making us dependent on something outside of ourselves(biblegod) to be "saved", thus, our "freewill" is entirely USELESS. We are like robots "programmed" to "miss the mark"---the "mark" that the "programmer", itself, set.(duh?)

2) The biblical "Heaven", could very well in the long run, actually house more criminals than "hell"---"criminals", meaning people who have committed violent crimes in their life-time....i.e..rapists, murders, warmongers, robbers, child molesters, etc.(Ironic?)

3) The biblical "hell", could very well in the long run, house more compassionate and selfless people than "heaven". This means that the people in "hell" could have broken less of these "laws" that dufuss-Marvin keeps blathering about, yet, they are the ones roasting in away for eternity.('got "justice"?)

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Enjjpt — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:17:00 -0000

I swear that DAN MARVIN is the WEBMASTER...ala the Phil Hendrie show.

If you are not familiar with the Phil Hendrie show, he is a talk show guy who has 'guests' on his show who are nuts. People get all riled up and call in to rant about the 'guests' crazy positions. Phil 'moderates' the discussion, but is is odd that him and his 'guest' never talk over each other, or interrupt each other...I was fooled for about a week, then I got the joke.

No one can possible be as daft as Dan Marvin. That is my theory and I am sticking to it...

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Dan Marvin — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:17:00 -0000

"Dan,

I was just wondering when you sleep."

LOL you noticed this also. My days are around 20 hours long because I take care of the babies. Right now, one is sick and my 1 year old gets up every 3 hours to feed. It is the hardest work I have ever done and the most rewarding. I feel blessed with blood shot eyes. I get to homeschool the children and watch them grow up, it's an honor.

Hebrews has always a bit mysterious and very different from the other gospels, and for me, the hardest to understand. That being said, by just a definition alone I am just a Christian but by the definitions that you use I could be considered Calvinist and believe Monergism. I would say a Biblicalist. I believe the Bible would not survive this many years for this many people if it were filled with just lies. Lying is too unnatural to hold up for this long, I actually believe Genesis story of the beginning to the fate of the lost and future descriptions in Revelation. I am a Christian plan and simple. I hope you all will be the same also someday.

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Brian — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 07:43:00 -0000

I'm waiting to see if my prediction about how Dan Marvin replies to WM will come true.

Let's wait and see if he does what I think he will do.

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

.:webmaster:. — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 05:54:00 -0000

Here Paul's central teaching is that...

Dan, no one knows who authored the book of Hebrews. It's anonymous. In fact, many Christians throughout history have thought Hebrews should be left out of the Bible. Maybe that would make your apologetic on this one easier.

Oh, and you do realize, don't you, that John Wesley taught that Christians could indeed lose their salvation, right?

Further, all the good Calvinists who opposed John Wesley and his Armininanism, believed in predestination in regards to salvation. So, while Calvinists do teach that Christians will persevere in the faith until death, they also believed only those chosen for salvation from before the beginning of the world would be saved.

Dan, Calvinists believe that salvation comes before faith, and that salvation is a free gift, a gift that cannot be chosen or rejected, it is simply given. In other words, one is either chosen by god for salvation or not.

The religion you have adopted is a smashed-together version of Calvinist and Arminian hermenutics. And until the middle 1800s, your hermenutic didn't even exist. Good thing you were born today so you'd have the correct version of the right segment of Christianity to believe in!

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Brian — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 04:58:00 -0000

FROM DAN MARVIN'S PERSONAL BLOG:
"Just because mankind doesn't accept circular arguments doesn't mean a thing it's still the truth. God is who he is because he says he is who he is. Like it or not."

Oh really? Did God actually tell you that, or did you read it in your bible?

Now remember Dan, the bible is not solid evidence. It is only "Hear-Say" which is something you keep failing to realize.

So if you can't prove it beyond the bible, then you once again have no evidence. "Like it or not".

FROM DAN MARVIN'S PERSONAL BLOG:
"We need always to remember that absence of proof is NOT proof of absence. Denying any proofs does not one bit disprove or even diminish the theological perspective."

So? it still does not prove that you are right either Dan.

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Anonymous — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 04:25:00 -0000

Dan,

I was just wondering when you sleep.

I have noticed you on here at all hours of the day, including late at night.

You remind me of the "Energizer Bunny".

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Dan Marvin — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 03:42:00 -0000

For many years I thought I was a Christian but lived in sin without repentance, it was a false Christian belief. It was just that, I believed in Jesus and that he did what he said he did but then one day my heart woke up and I tuned away from sin forever. I took up my cross and became a true Christian and never will I look back. God saved me. It started as a belief but now I serve Christ.

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Dan Marvin — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 03:36:00 -0000

"The issue in this passage (Hebrews 6:4-9) is not whether God forgives the repentant person, but whether there is any way to bring a mature Christian (see Paul's comments in Hebrews 5:12-6:3) back to repentance if he totally rejects Christ (Hebrews 6:6). Paul's answer is, "No, they are like land which is only good for burning" (Hebrews 6:8). Here Paul's central teaching is that, in theory, even mature Christians can fall away and so harden themselves against God that nothing will turn them back from hell.

If God didn’t want us to be able to choose He would not have given us the gift of freewill. It is this gift which places us above the animals. It is this gift which allows us to choose to either worship God or not worship God. It is this gift, and only this gift, which allows us to truly love Him like a son"(Graham Pockett)

I have said in the past:

Remember, God's word declares that this is God's plan of salvation; 1. Hear the WORD of God. 2. Believe that Jesus is the Messiah. 3. Repent of your ways that are contrary to God's will. 4. Be Baptized INTO Christ for the forgiveness of your sins and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 5. Remain faithful to the Covenant you have made with God.

Have you done all 5? Kept number 5? (Matthew 24:13)

So I understand those verses but I am saying, again only my opinion, that A true Christian would never violate step 5 so I believe a true Christian could never, in his right mind, curse God.

I don't know this guy I quoted but he did what a lot of you are doing.

He said this: "When I was quite young I gave myself to the Lord. I then drifted away from the church – and from Jesus – and ended up walking in a wilderness for 25 years. For 25 years I cursed Jesus and fought against Christianity. I ‘studied’ the Bible looking for ‘wrongness’ in it and read as many anti-Christian writings as I could. I became an intellectually strong anti-Christian and could debate, and win, with committed Christians in many areas, specially on early church history. Guess you could say that I was like Saul, a zealot against the Christians.

One day, in the fit of despair after being separated from my wife of 19 years, I asked “the Creator” (my concept at that time) how I could get her back. I heard an audible voice (which I instantly knew to be Jesus) say: “Believe in Me”. It was mind blowing to say the least. I can understand the confusion Saul must have felt when he was slam-dunked to the ground by the very Person he was persecuting. It was the same with me.

Was I ‘saved’ during those 25 years of anti-Christian ‘preaching’? From my own heart I can say a resounding NO. If I had died and gone to Heaven during that period I would have screamed to be taken to Hell! Yet I had accepted Jesus at a Youth For Christ rally when I was about 14. Saved forever, or not saved forever?

To the people who would say that I really wasn’t saved when I was young I just point them back to John 3:16. I did believe in the salvation of Jesus in those early days – I witnessed at school, I was very much involved with my local church, I even wanted to become a minister of religion when I grew up!

But, after five years, I backslid – and not just a little way either! I fell all the way into the pit and Satan had me fully in his grasp. Saved? No way. The Lord gave us the power of freewill, and I had exercised mine to be a servant of Satan." (Graham Pockett)

Even though he claimed to be saved deep down I believe he was still a false convert. So again there is still hope Repent today and trust in Jesus. Can't you see His mercy towards all of you?

I will have to pray and study more on this to truly grasp this issue. I believe the Bible says there are stony ground hearers and true converts. If a person that understands the truth and truly believes and fears the Lord then what in his right mind turn him away unless they believe it all to be a lie. If that was the case then did he believe, truly, in the first place? That isn't faith that is doubt. They are polar opposites. That is why doubt is very dangerous ground to walk on. If my wife or child would doubt my sincerity I would be so very offended, I am sure God would be also. I will do some homework and get back to you.

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Brian — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:49:00 -0000

Dan Marvin's quote to another poster:

<<<<< Jesus taught it. He said those with eternal life will NEVER PERISH. John 10:28 "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. " Well, will they perish or not? Jesus says those with eternal life will NEVER perish. I believe Him. Do you? >>>>

Dan Marvin's reply to me (Brian):

<<<< In my humble opinion: You broke the covenant with God, being omniscient He knew this and did not forgive you yet. He is waiting for that one moment when you never look back like Lots wife and thrust yourself forward into His salvation. >>>>

That's right Dan. In "Your" humble opinion only, not God's. Thanks for admitting to all of us that you do not know the mind of God. Just like every other christian, you second guess God based on scripture. You make guesses and judgements based on what little information that you know. I was a christian at one time, and that is a "fact". I don't care what you say. I know the truth about who I was at one time.

You probably just admitted more truth on here than you have ever admitted Dan. All of your teachings and posts are based only on "Your" opinions, not the words of God, and just to remind you "The Bible" is also a book of opinions from men who thought they knew the mind of God. These men were exactly like you Dan. They thought they knew the mind of God, and they thought God was telling them to write a book about him, when it was the minds of these same men all along. God didn't inspire them to do anything. The bible is not the word of God. You cannot use the bible itself to validate it's claim. You have to use an outside source to validate it's claim, and the "Dead Sea Scrolls" are also "Hear-Say" evidence. God has never revealed himself in physical, or audio form to anyone, so therefore he has not done anything to prove his existence at all.

From my original Post to Dan:
"Please explain why this bible scripture failed."

Dan's reply to me:
<<<< Scripture didn't...you did when you turned your back on God. This is just my observation there is no proof of it and God could have an entirely different reason, maybe He sees something that we cannot. >>>>

See, there you go again Dan, second guessing the mind of God. Are you ready to give up your debate yet pal? You are really making a fool out of yourself. You say one thing, and then you contradict yourself again later. You talk out of both sides of your mouth.

Since you are using the bible as your defense, all of us should expect you to contradict yourself sooner or later. It only makes sense for you to contradict yourself since the bible is full of contradictions anyway.

However, by man's own free will he can turn his back on God. I agree with Kenneth.

Remember Dan, God will not interfere with man's own free will, so therefore anyone can turn his back on god and reject him.

I bet this scares you deep down inside to know that you may just be wrong. Underneath all of that egotistical self-righteous attitude of yours, you are starting to tremble with fear that you might be wrong after all.

You will never admit it however, because in your little pathetic mind, you would be letting down your "Jesus" by admitting that you are wrong. You would fall on your knees and cry like the baby that you are if that were to happen.

As far as all of what you are saying to us is falling on deaf ears, the reason why we do not hear you, is because you offer nothing that is worth listening to.

For Example:

DAN MARVIN SAYS: "Let's see what the bible has to say about this"

DAN MARVIN SAYS: "Let's see what the bible has to say about that".

DAN MARVIN SAYS: "It's not too late, repent".

DAN MARVIN SAYS: "It's not too late, trust in Jesus alone".

Dan, you are getting struck down on this site by people like Webmaster and Boomslang. These guys are pros at defeating and striking down the christian argument. You are an amateur, and you don't have a literal, "Prayer" of striking down anyone's argument on this site.

So far Jesus has not done anything to prove your case. It's just poor little old Dan Marvin who has been left down here with a 2,000 year old book with no help or assistance from God or Jesus himself.

God does not give a damn about you Dan. So keep on humiliating yourself for Jesus, and keep on scoring those brownie points for him.

In the end when your time is up on this planet, you are just going to end up like the rest of us. A dead, and cold corpse in the ground that once had a life in it that was wasted on some imaginary sky daddy.

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Kenneth — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 00:50:00 -0000

Dear Dan,

I too have also read your claims, and I am quiet familiar with the verses you have just shared.

I take it that you are a "Southern Baptist", because this "Once Saved Always Saved" philosophy is very popular among the "Southern Baptist" denomination.

Tell me Dan, how can you ignore this scripture?

HEBREWS 6:4-9: "For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls upon it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned. But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way (NASB)

Tell me Dan, how can you deny what this passage says?

You sure are quick to judge others on here who do not believe "Exactly" what you believe. What makes you think that I am not a christian Dan?

It seem anytime someone rebukes you with scripture, you get on the offense and start telling everyone that they need to repent.

No, you dear sir need to stop spreading Satan's greatest lie about how "Once You're Saved You're Always Saved".

It's people like you Dan Marvin who are going to cause others to stumble and end up in hell, by spreading and teaching false doctrine.

The "Once Saved, Always Saved" theory is going to send more people to hell than anything else.

You, Dan Marvin, have bought into Satan's greatest lie, and weapon against the christian faith.

Re: Free at last... - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Dan Marvin — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 00:07:00 -0000

"I would like to challenge Dan Marvin to come onto this site and back up his claim about "Once Saved Always Saved"."

I already did:

If you can lose your salvation, then what do you do with John 10:28 where Jesus says he gives eternal life and the sheep will NEVER perish? If you can lose it then Jesus should have said, "and they may perish..." or "they CAN perish." But he said, THEY WILL NEVER PERISH. So, will they never perish? Or can they?

A true Christian cannot turn away from God. Here is why. 2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

Now look at 1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." THEY WOULD HAVE REMAINED if they were really Christians to begin with.

Now a question for you. Are you saying that the Spirit begins the work of salvation in us and that we work it out and complete it by remaining faithful? That IS what you are saying, that we get saved and keep it by the effort of our works, right? Check this out. Galatians 3:1-3 "O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?"

Jesus taught it. He said those with eternal life will NEVER PERISH. John 10:28 "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. " Well, will they perish or not? Jesus says those with eternal life will NEVER perish. I believe Him. Do you?

It isn't too late you are not all throw aways from God. Repent today and Trust! in Jesus and you WILL have everlasting life. You are not ex Christians you are all stony ground hearer or false converts. It isn't too late!