-
Website
http://exchristian.net/ -
Original page
http://exchristian.net/testimonies/2008/08/almost-every-regret-i-have-is-somehow.html -
Subscribe
All Comments -
Community
-
-
Top Commenters
-
Popular Threads
All Comments
The bottom line with belief vs. non belief is that we either believe the Bible/koran/Torah to be true or we don't. Most people on the planet who believe were told to believe at a young age and the mind of a child is impressionable. Sometimes as people age, they are unable to shed from their being. They really believe that the story has been handed down like a chain letter and since the majority of the world believes in something, then the Bible god must be real.
All books were created by the mind of man with no ispiration from a god. How normal everyday average folk can't see this is beyond me.
I walk the line of a Diest, and I have for years now. Something created life, call it whatever you wish. It can't communicate with humans and vice versa. It has no control over planetary life, mother nature, living and dying....We are own our own here and if you look at the way humans have treated each other for centuries, we are failing miserably. Life sometimes to me looks like a science project thats just waiting for the species to destroy itself.
Do we live after this life? Who knows?. We should be more concerned about living this life, one that we know is real and not a life that no one can prove.
It's so obvious to me that it's nothing more than a fairytale yet millions believe the bullshit and a large number of people believe Jesus is coming back.
Sometimes I don't even want to associate with humans... I think there's a genetic defect in more people than we realize.
In my lifetime, I just want to see the numbers increase in non belief and see religion be pushed to the wall. I hope it happens.
Wipe the Bible out of your brain and fear nothing that it states.
Good Luck
Bobby
I am so grateful for this site and for the people who finally realize that there is a place to come and tell their story. Occasionally I need to remember where I was so that I can appreciate where I am now.
Brian, one thing you can do is to not regret, although this is not always easy. It took every thought and action you had to get you where you are today. Your life is not over. We cannot change one moment of our past. We have only each moment NOW. Is it too late to become involved in something that stimulates you and challenges you? :)
One other helpful thought is the absolute absurdity of hell. I prayed, when I was in my 20's, that I would love god more than I feared hell. Now I know there is no hell except of human making here on this earth. Therefore we need no savior to intervene in our behalf to keep us out of hell. Though, dammit, I wish I had a magic wand for this lifetime. But that's another story.
It took me many years of intentionally forgetting the bible to realize that there is no god or angel watching me, judging me, condemning me or loving me. Ultimately, I walk alone. That thought initially gripped me with fear, and then courage set in.
Thank you for sharing your story. Congratulations for using your obviously intelligent brain! And welcome!
MaryJane
Brian, one thing you can do is to not regret, although this is not always easy. It took every thought and action you had to get you where you are today. Your life is not over. We cannot change one moment of our past. We have only each moment NOW. Is it too late to become involved in something that stimulates you and challenges you? :)
One other helpful thought is the absolute absurdity of hell. I prayed, when I was in my 20's, that I would love god more than I feared hell. Now I know there is no hell except of human making here on this earth. Therefore we need no savior to intervene in our behalf to keep us out of hell. Though, dammit, I wish I had a magic wand for this lifetime. But that's another story.
It took me many years of intentionally forgetting the bible to realize that there is no god or angel watching me, judging me, condemning me or loving me. I walk alone. That thought initially gripped me with fear, and then courage set in.
Congratulations for using your obviously intelligent brain! And welcome!
MaryJane
I apologize for my original remark as I now realise I misread your posting and thought you were having a go at Brian and his excellent posting. I am partially-sighted and try to avoid such errors by extra careful reading. I failed in this instance and repeat - I apologize.
The difference between Christianity and Science is:
Christianity gives us answers to be fact without any evidence other than a book. As you've seen this book contradicts itself and is clearly written by men.
Science is based on evidence that leads to theory's. Science never claims anything to be a fact until the theory is proven complete.
Bottom line, we don't have all the answers to how life began. Science has the theories which, as I said, are based on evidence. Science loves be proven wrong when someone comes up with a fact based on evidence. Don't worry about what you don't know, just keep searching for the evidence until you come up with a fact.
I also want to mention, a different way I've learned about religion is through word etymology. For instance, the word "hell" comes from the German word "light." Yep, hell means light. Husband, means house owner. Words change meaning through time, and for some reason along with the word change comes a new story....hence the bible.
Keep on researching. You life isn't over. The path you had chosen may not be perfect, but be glad you're alive and can make positive changes now to move forward and now enjoy your life with your eyes opened. Be glad you now know the truths of life and you aren't stuck in the nightmare land that so many people of religion are stuck in.
You made it out!!! WAY TO GO!
Giovanna***<3
Huh?
"your thinking" must be a euphemism for Christianity! I totally agree with Bret on that point. Everything else Bret wrote epitomizes the limited and grandiose thinking of Christianity, which I reject.
Bret, if you are as knowledgeable about bible translation as you claim, then answer the following questions?
1. What is the Masoretic Text and when is it dated?
2. How many alterations are there between the Masoretic Text and P52 and P66 alone?
3. Other than Isaiah, what is the percentage of textual agreement between the DSS (Dead Sea Scrolls) and any of the commonly accepted English translatations of the remaining text found in the DSS.
What you'll find is that there is vast disagreement, not the 95% textual agreement idea that is promoted between the Masoretic Text and the more ancient manuscripts we have found. All of the major translations in use today have major disagreements in both doctrinal content and wording from the most reliable and ancient manuscripts. To argue otherwise, it to ignore the work of even conservative scholars such as Gordon Fee when they discuss problems in ancient and modern translations. Fee wrote in "New Dimensions of New Testament Study," "this scribe-turned-recensor was interested neither in MS purity...nor in 'scholarly' recensions of the type we might expect in Alexandria. Rather, he was interested in presenting a good, readable text, which smooths out grammar and tends to remove difficulties" (p31). These "difficulties" Fee refers to includes textual conflicts/contradictions that are readily apparent in the most ancient and reliable manuscripts. To say that all of the problems have been worked out is just plain ignorant, and no serious scholar with a PhD would ever make such a claim.
The real fact of the matter is Bret, is that you are most likely unaware the of the Biblical criticisms that conservative scholars are unable to answer, but many of them, even the conservative scholars, do acknowledge . My challenge to you, Bret, is to actually read the criticisms out there. Read Hector Avalos' "The End of Biblical Studies" or Bart Ehrman's "Misquoting Jesus." Then come back and give us a critique of the book.
there are the supposed 900 + errors and or contradictions in the bible and yet every single one has been answered a zillion times and yet the doubters are never satisfied.
Why are the doubters never satisfied? Because most of the supposed "answers" are just lame excuses and are not reasonable. I was involved in Christian apologetics for five years and was increasingly frustrated that the answers provided by "professional" apologists were insufficient. At that time I still believed the Bible 100%, but couldn't understand why it was so hard to prove that it was the truth.
As an example of the unreasonableness of the excuses given by apologists, Bret, please explain the discrepancies between the two accounts of the death of Judas Iscariot.
If something is a fact and stated as such is that wrong?
Of course not, in fact, it would be right. The huge problem is that the Bible often states things as fact that are indeed known to not be fact. And that is wrong, wouldn't you agree, Bret?
Respectfully,
Franciscan Monkey
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan
your thinking is so limited and shows such grandiose ego.
Ha, ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha.
"One of the monumental ironies of religious discourse can be appreciated in the frequency with which people of faith praise themselves for their humility, while condemning scientists and other non-believers for their intellectual arrogance.
There is, in fact, no worldview more reprehensible in is arrogance than that of a religious believer: the creator of the universe takes an interest in me, approves of me, loves me, and will reward me after death; my current beliefs, drawn from scripture, will remain the best statement of the truth until the end of the world; everyone who disagrees with me will spend eternity in hell..." -- Sam Harris
--S.
"to me if you sit back and free your mind its easier..."
"Easier," he said.
Life was, I must admit, in many ways much easier when I had only to look to the "instruction book" for how to live mine. Life is easier, too, when you are a child and others tell you what to do, how to think, and which path is "best." Accepting someone elses dogmas is easier. Believing that your invisible friend is always looking after you is easier. Believing that your destiny is predetermined and that you therefore need only go with the flow is easier.
This is one of the many reasons why people become trapped in christianity. Even Bret knows it's easier.
This is one of the many reasons why people become trapped in christianity. Even Bret knows it's easier.
Yes, bret and his christian ilk, epitomize the quote, "ignorance is bliss".
--S.
Somehow they always think this is the best argument for God - that they just don't know and have no evidence.
I too know the regret of feeling I wasted my life. I was raised in a Pentecostal, Fundamentalist Church. My earliest memories are of church and my mother speaking in tongues. I was baptised at 8 years old, filled with the spirit at 11, "called to the ministry" at 16 and did remain a virgin until I was married at 24!
I missed out on getting a college degree (even though I was an A student), because secular schools were forbidden by my church. I love science and wanted to be a geologist, but that would require believing in evolution and not creation. So that was squelched. I ended up working physical, low paying jobs & waiting for the day I could get into a church and be a pastor (which I didn't really want to do, deep down in my guts).
That day finally came and in my thirties I went to a church that was pastored by a close friend of mine (who was raised in the same church that I was). I was the music minister & associate pastor. My wife and I had to work all week teaching in the on-site christian school (my wife didn't even receive a paycheck). On Saturday we had to clean the whole church complex (including a gym), and Sunday was an all day affair. I forced my wife and my 3 children to do everything that the church required. This is my BIGGEST REGRET! During those 5 years I almost lost my wife, and irrepairable damage was done to all of my children. It has taken 20 years to gain back, just some, of their love and respect. I know it will never be full and natural like it should have been, and could have been, had I not put them through 5 years of Hell.
I have thought about suicide numerous times, especially since I have come to the knowledge that there is no afterlife (heaven or hell). The regrets of a life WASTED, is what churned my guts most of all.
But, thanks to my wonderful wife (the one thing in life I DO NOT regret), who has forgiven me, I have found the courage to move on. She encourages me with positive thoughts such as "we now have 6 grandchildren who never knew the old, religious asshole Dan. I can love them and do the things that I missed out on with my own children. And blessing of blessings, my children are allowing me to be involved with them. They can't believe the change in the old man. They say "where was this nice, understanding guy when we were growing up?"
Anyway, Brian, I don't want to ramble on. I've told my story here about a year ago, so I won't repeat it now. Suffice it to say, there will be regrets, but there is also the chance for great joy! You can start over. I went back to school in my forties. We moved to the northwest and I was reunited with my long lost brother (he never bought into the church thing). We are now living with my eldest son and his family and I am working for a geological engineering company. I plan to be the best husband, father, grandfather, friend and human being that is posible, in the second half of my life. It sounds like you are much younger than I am, so be grateful that you have a lot of LIFE to live. Get out there and LIVE it. Oh, and yeah, you will find a wonderful woman and it's O.K. to have sex!
Go have a great life & please come back and let us know how it is going.
XpastorDan
Do you have the link to your story here?
Oh how I wish my fundy-hubby would absorb what you've said!
I had to laugh when you said your wife encourages you with positive thoughts such as "we now have 6 grandchildren who never knew the old, religious asshole Dan." You see, years ago, I said something similar to my husband. When he asked me why I bothered staying with him since I think he's such a religious asshole, I answered, "Because I knew you BEFORE you were that religious asshole and I hope that some day the man I married will reappear."
20-some years later---no such luck.
I regret so much living in such a narrow minded way all my life till about 33yrs old. I am free now and my life is much better and no guilt, no confusion and no searching for god and his hard to find will.
Respectfully,
Franciscan Monkey
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan
Dante's Inferno was based on the Catholic doctrine of hell.
It would help your cause if you were to take your fundamentalist nose out of the 66 books of fiction you are so dependent on and do some reading and learning.
By the beginning of the 14th century, when Inferno was written, the Catholic orthodoxy (forgive the tautology) regarding the nature of hell was basically complete.
But you're obviously highly intelligent. You don't have to waste another day. Read and absorb all the amazing books on atheism and ex-christianity you can find, and then let go. Forgive yourself - you did the best you could with the information you had at the time. Now that you have better information, you can move about the universe freely, enjoying your life and humanity to the fullest. Best wishes!
I think we are on the same boat when it comes to believing in God. If you would go and read my post "Miracle of Healed Vision or a hoax" you will know what I mean. It's under Forum-->Rants and Replies
You are an honest person, I appreciate that.
Once you start asking the questions, the illusion, quickly fades. the most important thing is to critically think, for yourself -- keep asking those questions and you'll be fine.
--S.
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=Uyp-XHOd28I
It's often a hurtful and unrewarding path us atheists and realists tread, but it's the ONLY path that can be stolled down with integrity and self-satisfaction. Being true to yourself is vital. Everything else, from that, may follow...
Good luck on your new path! :-D
Kindly,
HOO-HAA
Hi Hoo-Haa,
First I have to tell you that I think your moniker (nickname) is GREAT !
My 'blood pumping organ' goes out to your plight with your religious family.
I know from personal experience how a xtian family member see's a non-believer as the rebel of the family. The desire for god to be real is so great in them, that your 'refusal' to also believe, is clearly a threat to their faith.
Notice I said "desire", because that's what it really boils down to, isn't it.
They have no proof of their god, but the rewards such a god offers to them are too valuable for them to turn their backs on, in such a gamble.
I also think they FEAR YOU, for you found your way out of the god-mind-prison and they can't figure out how you could have done so. The fact that you concluded god isn't real, offers up a possibility in their minds that you might be right.
For if one person escapes ANY prison, it plants the idea that others can as well.
I'm also sure they hate that you have enough independence and courage to not have a need to cling to god to get through your daily life; which your family members seem to lack that independence and courage.
To accept you being an atheist, is in their mind, to actually sanction your non-belief in their god. I bet they would see such sanctioning as a huge sin?
Therefore, such a sin might cause them to lose favor with the god they so need to believe in.
So even if in their 'hearts' they would like to tell you out-loud that they will accept your view, just to utter those words and have god hear them, would surely cause god to lower their standing 'rank' in his eye's.
Just some thoughts for you is all.
ATF (Who thinks xtians are more frightened of their long term future, than they will ever admit; especially to us)
Cheers for the insight...
"I also think they FEAR YOU, for you found your way out of the god-mind-prison and they can't figure out how you could have done so. The fact that you concluded god isn't real, offers up a possibility in their minds that you might be right.
For if one person escapes ANY prison, it plants the idea that others can as well"
You're absolutely right - and a part of me is angry at them for being so typically aggressive in their defensive behaviour. Another part of me feels very sorry for them. If I was to successfully convince my parents that everything they believe in and have built their lives around is nonsense, it would be frightful for them . Not only would they fear death all the more, but their lives (and let's not forget money - they hold strongly to the tithing concept) would be seen as foolishly spent, at best, hopelessly wasted, at worst.
A part of me holds back from unleashing the full force of my atheistic rant, therfore. It would be destructive for them, at their age, to *not believe* - regardless of how much more they could relax in themselves...
Also, for folks like my parents, it would be difficult to walk away - their lives revolve around the church and god. In many ways, I think the fundie xian life suits their needs - it's free from the things that they find offensive, too challenging or too complicated.
I struggle with all of this - it makes me angry. That fucker in the sky has, in effect, ruined the relationship that I could have had with my parents. I could blame them for that, but - in my eyes - they're victims of their religion, and how it's been oppressed upon them, as much as I was. And I resent that. Like Anton LaVey writes in 'The God of Assholes' I really would grab a gun and shoot it into the sky if I thought that I could assasinate that dickweed in the sky... I'd do it in a heartbeat, with murderous glee! We could all do it together, like a gang of wild west bandits!
Hahah! You gotta laugh at it, sometimes - thank the stars for people like Pat Condell who remind us of the funny side of all this bullshit...
Peace!
HOO-HAA
I'm glad that my story was an encouragement to you. You will find much support at this site. It has helped me so much in the past 2 years. There are many here who still have Christian Spouses. I am so fortunate that my sweetheart came out with me.
My eldest son is the only one in our immediate family, that still calls himself a Christian (mostly because of his Catholic wife).
Perhaps it would help you to write your Testimonial and Post it here at Ex-Christian.net. It really helped me. We have several ex-ministers and even an ex-nun. You will be a welcome addition. We all gain strength from each other.
There are some amazing, intelligent and loving people who frequent this Web Site. Welcome!
XpastorDan