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Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Peter_NL — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 22:52:37 -0000

"such a shame that you people have no hope for the life here after"
Not a shame at all. Why would you want to live forever? I honestly never understood how some people would want to.

"you very big mouth and speak things about God the Almighty that you dont understand,"
Fortunately you understand, and won't hesitate to explain to us, won't you? Better do a proper job of convincing us, or god will be very cross with you for failing to convert us sinners. All that stands between us and eternal damnation is you - so give it your best shot, François! God is watching you and weighing you.... And half-assed attempts won't be appreciated, considering the high stakes.

"what are you going to say to God if you die and find yourself before Him on your knees!!!!?"
If that should ever happen I will apologize for my non-commitment, but would also at the same time ask him why he never bothered to properly reveal himself to *me*. Not to others, not to François, but to *me*. I'm sure that, if your god is a reasonable being, he would agree with me that that was a reasonable point.

"why dont you just call this little club of yours atheist tea party? "
It's our little club and we will call it whatever we like, thank you very much. If you don't like it, start your own club. You can give that one any name you want. (Peter hums 'it's my party and I'll cry if I want to')

"you are only interested in your own opinions,"
If I were only interested in my own opinions I wouldn't need to read this forum - I visit because I'm interested in other people's opinions, specifically those of ex-christians, and more specifically of atheists.

"i realy hope you guys catch a [...]"
As long as there's life there's hope.

"wonder in what hole you will try to hide then? "
I have done nothing in my life I would be ashamed of and wouldn't defend myself of, either in a court or in front of any gods. I'm not a minister who has stolen from his flock, I'm not a married minister who went whoring, I'm not a christian who rejected her daughter for not believing in the same god as I did, etc.etc.

I'm a simple 35 y.o. guy who's trying to lead a simple, honest working man's life, without hurting or harming other people. I have done nothing for which I am ashamed, so I would not hide in any hole should anyone, man or supernatural being, feel the urge to judge me. I would defend myself and my actions.

"If you dont understand something dont just throw it away"
Only the things that are fully understood are boring and are thrown away by me. It's a particular trait of the INTP personality type. The moment I would understand your god would be the moment he would have lost all relevance to me.

"if your father does something that you dont understand,do you run away and say he is not your father anymore"
Yes, that is exactly what I have done. Except it wasn't 'running', but walking. I won't say he's not my father anymore, but I have said that he should lead his own life and stay away from mine. No hard feelings though.

"or do you ask him and do what you can to find the answer why he did it?" It's not my task to judge others, including my father. He succeeded in pushing his entire family away. I'm not interested in his reasons - I have my own life to live.

"so we can spend eternity with Him!!"
I don't want to spend an eternity; neither with you nor your god. No offence.

So, François... what do you think? Will your god be satisfied by your very weak attempt of convincing us of his existence? Or would he think you didn't show the commitment and convincing arguments he'd want to see used against us, so we atheists could come to believe too...? If I were god, you would have failed my standards of being a worthwhile witness for my cause. I hope for you your god is more lenient on you than I would be.

Peter.

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Astreja — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 21:59:34 -0000

Francois: "such a shame that you people have no hope for the life here after."

Hope is the denial of reality. I prefer to embrace the concept that there is probably no life-after-death as Me, and do My living in the present.

"what are you going to say to God if you die and find yourself before Him on your knees!!!!?"

If I *ever* wind up on My knees before your imaginary friend, Francois, it'll only be because every f%cking angel in Heaven is sitting on Me. I do not bow to genocidal, filicidal, pestilential fictional tyrants.

"Why dont you just call this little club of yours atheist tea party?"

Because we're not all atheists.

"i realy hope you guys catch a wake up before our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ comes back to judge us..."

We're already awake, and Jesus is not coming back. Dead people tend to stay dead.

"Not to late for you,repend of your stubborn rebellion tongues and come back to our God,so we can spend eternity with Him!!"

Your god. You spend eternity with the idiot. Hit the road, Francois.

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

glebealyth — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 11:10:43 -0000

Only if I wash it - then I cannot do a thing with it.

In parachute training school, before their first jump, the newbies were told, "If your 'chute fails to open, full the cord on your emergency 'chute."
One nervous recruit asked, "Sarge, what if that one doesn't open?"
"Then," replied the sergeant, "You must pray loudly and earnestly to Allah."
Come the jump, lo and behold, the recruit's main 'chute fails. He tries to open his emergency 'chute but this, too, fails.
Remembering his sergeant's advice, he prays loudly and earnestly to Allah for help, whereupon a large, black hand appears in the sky, catches him and lowers him gently and safely to earth.
Relieved still to be alive, the recruit picks himself up and exclaims, "Thank Christ for that."
His fellow recruits report that that was the moment the big, black foot descended from the sky and rubbed him into the dirt.

Francois, are you really sure you are praying to the right deity? I heartily recommend that you do not take up skydiving.

Peace,

David

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

maestra — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 10:53:51 -0000

Sconnor, this is an interruption of an important discussion to mention a bit of fluff..but the other day I was dying of laughter because aol had posted last words of some famous individuals. One that cracked me up, and I can't remember who the individual was(not that famous)..but his family members were by his bedside and the dying individual said." if there's one thing I want you all to remember is...." and then he died. I found it funny. But anyway..Thomas Edison was a pretty out-spoken agnostic who lived with his very Catholic wife (you probably already know this). His dying words to his wife were, "It's very beautiful over here..." I am not sure if I believe in an afterlife either, and frankly, I don't really need that reassurance, although it would be nice to know I'll see my loved ones again. I'm sure you too feel that way. But from what I've read about NDE's...people who experience "the beauty" of the afterlife come from all religions and races..including atheists (Except for one I did read about who had a dreadful experience with it). Most come back from it believing in a higher power and find greater purpose in their life. But christians don't have the monopoly on this experience!

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

sconnor — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 09:55:04 -0000

Francois

such a shame that you people have no hope for the life here after...why dont you just call this little club of yours atheist tea party?

I'm not an atheist

I believe there could be some sort of ultimate reality (an unknowable mystery) and I also believe that there is some sort of afterlife. I just do NOT believe in your personal christian god nor your christians doctrines that are based on someones interpretation of spurious scripture.

I base my belief from the extensive research I've done on NDEs. There is just enough there to keep it interesting. I like to say I have a thread to something concrete but I wouldn't want to be under that concrete, being held by a thread. But I humbly submit I do not delusionally profess it as truth -- my belief in an afterlife is little more than wishful thinking, considering my situation of losing my ten year old son to leukemia.

Anyway, most the NDErs after their experience usually denounce the dogma and doctrine of religion. God or the ultimate reality is all loving, doesn't regard one religion better than another and everyone can experience heaven. This is what the experiencers have shared. In any case in NDEs -- god (the ultimate reality) is not the christian god.

Furthermore, we are NOT all atheists here -- please put that in your memory banks. The ONLY thing we ALL have in common is we do NOT believe in your asinine christian claims. Do...you...under...stand?

you very big mouth and speak things about God the Almighty that you dont understand,what are you going to say to God if you die and find yourself before Him on your knees!!!!? If you dont understand something dont just throw it away,pray alot and ask alot and search alot,and when you get to other side your relationship with God wil be so much stronger,

Oh but you understand how to appease god, don't ya?

Get it through your dense deluded brain -- we do NOT believe in your personal christian god. I have posited that if god exists, it would be beyond our comprehension. God is unknowable. You do NOT know god -- you are just a lunatic who has psychotically constructed a delusion where you pretend you know god's will and character and that you can have a loving relationship with him. We can NOT understand nor reject something that we have concluded has NO evidence for its existence.

You do not know the will and character of god.

You do NOT have any objective evidence for ANY of your extraordinary christian/god claims.

You do not possess any special knowledge of god, his plan or his morals.

You simply attributed your own deluded thoughts and stunted imagination to an imaginary deity.

You're a deluded christian who has fabricated an insanely and fantastic, massive delusion by idiosyncratically interpreting the supposed word of god; the superstitious, spurious words of scripture, and erroneously attributing feelings to your god-character.

I'll tell you what Francois , if god exists, then god knows, exactly, where to find me -- he can share with me his character and will by telling me exactly, and concisely, everything he needs me to know, himself -- this way, I can be absolutely certain, what god wants from me, and I don't have to rely on some fallible, deluded christian asshole, that makes insane, unsubstantiated, interpretive claims, -- M-kay?

if your father does something that you dont understand,do you run away and say he is not your father anymore,or do you ask him and do what you can to find the answer why he did it?

I can actually see and talk to my dad (we can have a REAL-LIFE conversation, where I can hear his ACTUAL replies) as opposed to praying to the air and psychotically rationalizing an imaginary sky-daddy is answering me. The only relationship you have with your god is an INSANE imaginary one, that takes place in the confines of your deluded diseased brain.

i realy hope you guys catch a wake up before our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ comes back to judge us,wonder in what hole you will try to hide then? Not to late for you,repend of your stubborn rebellion tongues and come back to our God,so we can spend eternity with Him!!

The notion that faith in Christ is to be rewarded by an eternity of bliss, while a dependence upon reason, observation, and experience merits everlasting pain, is too absurd for refutation, and can be believed only by that unhappy mixture of insanity and ignorance called 'faith.' -- Robert G. Ingersoll.

Commit this quote, above, to memory and comprehend that the part about being insane and ignorant apply wholeheartedly to you.

--S.

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Thackerie — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 09:37:01 -0000

It's "a lot" - two words. "Repent," not "repend."(I don't have time to go into all your other spelling errors, but I think a fire-breathing fundigelical such as yourself should at least master the key jargon.)

Also, sentences should start with a capital (Upper case) letter, and you need to put a space after commas. But thank you for writing in paragraphs rather than presenting a dense wall of text, as is so common among your ilk.

This puts you head and shoulders above most of the True Christians™ who come here to display their "we's dumb."

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

cipher — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 06:12:40 -0000

Hey, Francois, what are you going to say if you die and find yourself on your knees before Allah? I hear he isn't as forgiving as the Christian god. Perhaps you'd better start worshiping him, just in case.

David, is your tongue stubborn and rebellious? I can't get mine to do anything.

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

glebealyth — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 05:03:21 -0000

What life hereafter?

PROOF, man, PROOF.
EVIDENCE - provide some.

You are believing a lie and putting your life at risk of subservience to people who will con you for everything you own and have worked for.

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF AN AFTERLIFE!

Peace,

David

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Francois — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 02:18:26 -0000

such a shame that you people have no hope for the life here after,you very big mouth and speak things about God the Almighty that you dont understand,what are you going to say to God if you die and find yourself before Him on your knees!!!!?

why dont you just call this little club of yours atheist tea party? dont call yourselfe exChristians,and if you realy seek answers you will find them,but you are not interested in answers,you are only interested in your own opinions,

i realy hope you guys catch a wake up before our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ comes back to judge us,wonder in what hole you will try to hide then? If you dont understand something dont just throw it away,pray alot and ask alot and search alot,and when you get to other side your relationship with God wil be so much stronger,if your father does something that you dont understand,do you run away and say he is not your father anymore,or do you ask him and do what you can to find the answer why he did it?

Not to late for you,repend of your stubborn rebellion tongues and come back to our God,so we can spend eternity with Him!!
Blessings
CHRISTIAN

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

AtheistToothFairy — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:37:23 -0000

Not only are you a "Nutt", but I think you're pretty darn confused about where you're posting to, as well as the era of this old article.

Please don't hold your breath waiting for Mike to reply, ok

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

ImmaNutt — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:22:22 -0000

Dear Mike, I agree with you! However, there are plenty of holes and gaps in that Babylonian Talmud Lubavitch Religion also. And the kabbala...for G-d s sake get a new alice in wonderland story. You probably won't post this because you would not want the Xistians to know the truth. Then they would have to drag their complacent Noahid butts back to the real world. thanks so much for making my day. Had such a great laugh! Oh by the way if your the Mike who has the other blog The Virtual Medinat Yehudah, you get a thumbs up from me for being a gutsy jew.

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Astreja — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 23:21:42 -0000

Acehole: "first off why dont you try looking at the design of a cell and marvel that little creation..."

Ooo! Cute little pneumococcus! *coochie coochie*

"second science has proven that jesus did exist..."

You are a liar. No ifs, ands, buts, or maybes about it. And you should be f#cking ashamed of yourself for making such an assertion.

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

NonXNonExX — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 10:51:37 -0000

Acehole,
You do know what your chosen name sounds like, don't you? So far everyone has resisted telling you, but i think the name you've chosen is perfect for you.

That old assertion that "you can except [sic] who he said he was or he was a complete mad man" is a fallacious argument that has been shot down long ago. I can think of many other alternatives. How about accepting that he never existed? How about accepting that there may have been a revolutionary named Jesus, but he never bothered to write anything down or instructed anyone to set up a church in his name? How about accepting that anonymous authors, who admitted they themselves were not eyewitnesses, decided to take a core legend and embellish to put across their own points of view and interests? How about accepting there are at least two different versions of Jesus in the NT (i.e., Paul's and that of the gospel authors)? I could go on and on (many have), but the point is YOU REALLY HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING!

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

ryndarknight — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:32:38 -0000

Like David said, you can't have it both ways acehole. If you marvel at the wonders of the cell, you also have to marvel and wonder at the purpose of things like the malaria virus. The information contained within it kills millions of children every year. Is this some sort of population control measure instituted by god? What kind of god are we talking here?

Now say we have 'proof' that jesus resurected and did miracles. Which I can see that you buy all that. He is quoted as saying there is eternal torment for those who don't accept him. Doesn't that bother you at least a little bit? That would be a total perversion of the idea of justice. Not to mention, why would a moral god want an eternity of 'praise and worship', it sounds very egotistical and boring.

But, if that sounds like your type of god, well...have fun in your sadistic pleasures. I won't be buying today or ever.

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

AtheistToothFairy — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:00:57 -0000

"except" you're an idiot, so I can't take you seriously.

ATF

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

glebealyth — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 07:07:54 -0000

1. I have looked regularly at the beauty which is a cell and marvelled at its creation. Then, after remembering that the cell I was looking at was a cancerous one, or one infected by disease caused by other cells, I cried.
Then, I remembered that, as there could never be creator who would treat his loved ones so fu(king badly as to create such things, I should really get on with my small contribution to making life beter and not stop to blame a mythical being for their creation.

2. Please, please, rather than just making an assertion about science having proven the existence of jesus, give us some references that we can follow up and read for ourselves.

Peace,

David

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

acehole — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 03:09:26 -0000

first off why dont you try looking at the design of a cell and marvel that little creation...second science has proven that jesus did exist....so you can except that he was who he said he was or he was a complete mad man...great thing is God gave you the choice...except it or dont but you should enjoy life either way because its the only one you have

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

sconnor — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 00:33:54 -0000

mikey,

God has never made a promise he hasn't kept and he never will.

Genesis 2:17 except the one that has the power to let you know the difference between right and wrong. If you eat any fruit from that tree, you will die before the day is over!"

Oops, they didn't die -- god lied and broke his promise.

Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Awwwwwwwww, god lied, again.

--S.

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Astreja — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 00:09:10 -0000

Mike: "Just like you can't make me believe science is true. I am not talking anatomy , biology etc. I am talking big bang, evolution etc."

Mike, anatomy and biology are both heavily informed by evolutionary theory. If you purport to study either one and deliberately refuse to educate yourself on evolutionary biology, you will forever be a second-rate biologist or anatomist.

"Remember there is an answer a way to get out of eternal damnation. Its Jesus."

And what makes you think that I *want* to get out of eternal damnation?

What makes you think that I'm so morally bankrupt that I would make a conscious decision to let someone else die in My place?

What makes you think that I, or any other compassionate person, would be happy in some celestial paradise while others were being tortured elsewhere?

I embrace the mythical flames with My entire being, because the alternative -- Worshipping the mythical creator of those flames -- Is infinitely more horrible.

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

buffettphan — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 21:33:31 -0000

Bumpersticker wisdom:

"Not smart enough to understand science? Try religion."

Buybull wisdom:

"Have rebellious kids? Stone 'em to death" Deut 21:20-21

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

AtheistToothFairy — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:50:34 -0000

Mike: Just as many have faith in science Christains have faith in Jesus

To All:

Once again, we have an ignorant xtian who is convinced that it takes "faith" to believe science facts, but of course only when such facts contrast what his ancient bible book implies to him.
For all other facts in science that just happens to better his life (if not save his life), those things are just fine by him.

Mike,

How many non-xtian books have you read on evolution?
How many biology courses in college did you take so far?
On what scientific CREDIBLE grounds do you dismiss evolution?

Of course, while evolution requires no faith, because it's crystal clear to anyone willing to understand the theory, faith is greatly required in a god/jesus belief, because there is ZERO evidence that such gods exists, or ever existed, other than inside your gullible mind and those like you.

You surely must also realize that this topic has been bantered about on this website, countless times and evolution has yet to lose out.
On the other hand, your so called "Intelligent Design" Theory has fallen flat on it's face, even in our court systems, even with the backing of your 'smartest' xtian supporters.

Please preach your trash on xtian websites where they will gladly behave like the sheep you and your god love so much.

ATF (Who wonders what kickback Mike thinks god will give him, for preaching here?)

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

boomSLANG — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:34:24 -0000

No one can convince you if you don't want to believe.

Dear Christian guest,

Let's get one thing straight right-off-the-bat. My non-belief in invisible conscious beings has nothing to do with whether I "want to believe" in such things, or not. It's that I literally cannot believe such things without out-right lying to myself. Similar to how you cannot just wake up tomorrow and "decide" that you "want to believe" in Zeus. The reality is, there are some things about the Theist philosophy that I still like, it's just that I simply cannot believe these things if I am to remain intellectually honest with myself. Trust me, I love the notion that I could be reunited with all my deceased friends and relatives upon death. However, there is not one single scrap of evidence - that is, "evidence" that isn't anecdotal, or out-right group-think bullsh*t - that there exists a post-mortem "life". None; zip; zero; nadda. You can quote your holy book; you can do cartwheels; you can jump up and down and turn purple; you can bludgeon me with your "intuition" and personal "experiences", but that is NOT evidence that is concrete enough for me, personally---there is nothing objective about such "evidence".

Just like you can't make me believe science is true.

You're right, I cannot make you believe "science is true". You are perfectly free to reject science in lieu of holy books, your "gut instinct", preachers, and whatever/whoever else you think makes a better "compass for Truth". Have a blast!...knock yourself out, kiddo!

In case your interested, the differences are, 1) science doesn't claim absolute certainty to begin with, and 2) scientists aren't offering up their findings with conditions attached, where conversely, religious convictions such as yours, DO claim certainty, and they DO offer their "findings" with conditions attached.

I am talking big bang, evolution etc

Yes, yes...of course! Stupid stuff, right? Notwithstanding your apparent ignorance, let's give you benefit of doubt: Okay, science is just one giant conspiracy; all findings based on the scientific method are out-right lies. 'Fair enough?

Okay...WHAT alternative explanation do you have? I sincerely hope it's not "the bible", because "GOD DID IT" is NOT an "explanation"---it explains NOTHING. If you have a way to "test" the Book of Genesis, let's hear that method ASAP, okay? I'm really curious.

God has never made a promise he hasn't kept and he never will

Assuming your cherished biblegod actually exists----yes, good point.....it either created a place, or allows a place to exist, for the expressed purpose of torturing those who don't reciprocate its 'love", or for those who refuse to accept its existence on "faith", and it "promises" to see that these people make it there. Nice.

I don't need a book to tell me why God is real.

and then two seconds later...

Remember there is an answer a way to get out of eternal damnation. Its Jesus. He is the way.

And?... you know this is "fact", how, if not from the book that you just told us that you "don't need" to read. Waffle much?

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

mike — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 13:31:17 -0000

No one can convince you if you don't want to believe. Just like you can't make me believe science is true. I am not talking anatomy , biology etc. I am talking big bang, evolution etc. Just as many have faith in science Christains have faith in Jesus. God has never made a promise he hasn't kept and he never will. You in your argument accuse God of doing mean things, treating people badly. But how can you understand his thought process? I don't understand yours and you've made nothing. You have breathed life into nothing. You can't make a tree grow or tell a rock to move. But he can. He has.

Lets all stop thinking we are intellegent and get back to the root of the problem. We are ignorant short specks of existance on an unending plain of time. I don't need a book to tell me why God is real.

Remember there is an answer a way to get out of eternal damnation. Its Jesus. He is the way. The road is long and the gate is narrow and there are few who find it. Because God doesn't live in America he doesn't say things have to be fair or equal. Life is not fair my freinds and neither is salvation. (fair according to your standards) Although I believe its perfectly fair

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Jeff — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:22:00 -0000

because I like living sinfree; I never have to say that I’m sorry, or suffer the consequence for doing what I know is wrong!

You're kidding right? You think you are sinfree? The bible states that whoever says they are without sin is a liar.
Also try reading 1 Cor. 13 to see some of the fruits of the spirit before you make all those nasty remarks about those that post here.

Re: A Challenge to any Christains reading this - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Monkeys — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:10:10 -0000

Thanks Sconnor,
billy is probably intentionally going to craft a completely unreadable rant complete with a plethora of grammatical and spelling errors. I am more concerned about trying to decipher his language skills than the arguments themselves. usually half of his rant are threats, insults and ad hominen attacks so at least you can skip over most of the rant.

Somehow he seems to think bullying equates to a cogent argument.